and abolishing ICE?.......be honest if you can........and if you don't support those actions then why are you whining about it?
How many of you libs actually support totally open borders
- Thread starter Snow Sled Baby
- Start date
The ones who support it won't honestly admit it, the ones who honestly admit it know they'll never get enough support for it.
isn't it strange the sudden silence from those who always have something to say......is it because they actually do support it and are ashamed or because their ultra left friends will find out they don't support it and be ashamed?........either way
figure out what gender and race you are before you criticize someone else.....and take something for your TDS....
![[banana]](https://res-5.cloudinary.com/rivals/image/upload/qo9fu1unj7ctwin1ayii.gif "banana [banana]")
rachel Stupidity seems to permeate both sides of the immigration discussion. Talk of getting rid of ICE is stupid. What’s even more stupid is talk of getting rid of ICE without a replacement.
On the other side, separating immigrant families was stupid and hurt the cause of immigration enforcement. It was even more stupid not to keep track of the separated family members.
Not one American citizen should support open borders. We don't have open borders now but we sure have a bunch of people crossing in defiance of our law. I don't believe we are taking the the best approach to handling the situation. What is the answer.
isn't it strange the sudden silence from those who always have something to say......is it because they actually do support it and are ashamed or because their ultra left friends will find out they don't support it and be ashamed?........either way
Both.
I have to believe it was not the left doing most of the crying about the plight of the Sryian children, rather it was the right -- regardless of who it was, it was still wrong. Today we are separating children from their parents when they illegally cross. Some of those kids will never again be enjoined with their parents because we don't know where all of them were placed after separation.
Appreciating and accepting the Left"s chief criticism of this country, that being it is a racist, sexist, homophobic, White-dominated Christian Hell hole... I struggle to understand why any self-respecting parent of any brown skinned child would send that child to this country either by themselves or bring them here illegally? Much less so why would they even want them to live here? Even more perplexing why would anyone on the Left encourage them to come here if everything they say about this country is true?
Either what the Left says about the country is not true or there is some other reason they are encouraging these folks to come here illegally. Like perhaps allow the children in first then send for the parents later so they can vote?
Maybe you can explain it to me Finney? Why would the Left encourage these folks to come illegally no less to such a reprobate land if what they say about it is true unless there's some other reason as I mentioned they want these folks here?
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Your reply was spoken like a true extreme liberal.
All fluff... ...and still not a direct answer to what really is a simple question.
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I, for one, love LEGAL immigration. ...border jumpers...not so much...
Is that it? Or is it we’re trying to vette the damn parents to ensure we’re not turning kids over to human traffickers?
They've admitted that the tracking wasn't done. They really didn't have the process figured out. Now you have 2 different federal agencies trying to figure this out after the fact.
I'm not for open borders or abolishing ICE. My opinion is that the full border wall is not the most cost effective way to protect the border though. It makes sense in some areas, but definitely not all areas. Also, a wall without people patroling it is useless.
Why not start tougher enforcement along that border that is literally being overrun with a Wall...see how effective it is, then add whatever enhancements we need after it's built?
Maybe it will do the job and we won't need anything else? We have virtually nothing now, and nothing else proposed is as permanent a fixture or serves as obviously a visual deterrent as well as a physical obstacle to overcome for folks seeking the easiest way to sneak in here illegally. Nothing is 100%, but why not start with a wall at perhaps 50 or 60% and then see what else we can do to raise that if it doesn't do the job all by itself?
Agree with you we need more agents, and other enhanced security...but I see the wall as an important part of that overall equation if not one of the most important parts.
My own personal opinion here and nothing else...I think the Left is fighting that Wall so hard precisely because they understand it will work and will work very well! Once it's up and there...game over...so they're trying to keep it from ever being included in the game. JMO.
You ask a two part question. I'm sure you never intend to phrase your question so poorly. Nevertheless, I'll try to respond honestly. I do not and never have supported open borders. Open borders would be incredibly stupid from a security and economic standpoint.
But that doesn't mean that we can't support additional legal immigration. I personally believe we can support and need a lot more cheap labor. Right now, it is nearly impossible for a poor person from Mexico or Central America to legally immigrate. Therefore, we need an immigration policy based on economic need and not political grandstanding. Second, we don't need to treat the people coming across the boarder illegally inhumanly. Next, we need a allow the illegals already here and living productive lives to be granted a path toward citizenship. Lastly, we would we abolish ICE? I've heard no rationale argument to abolish the agency/group.
I have no idea why the left does what it does and oh by the way, I have no idea why the right does what it does. It is my belief that both sides are wrong in many things they do. Both sides are sorely lacking in leadership. I am Right, You are Wrong is the message being sent by both Parties and both Parties are equally culpable.
While that may be true, it's not an answer to my question Finney. I think an honest answer to that question (why illegals are encouraged to come here by the Left) begins to solve this problem. We can't take in everyone who wants to come here, and those that do wish to come here should come here legally. We are a nation of Laws...we do not have an open border. Why the Left refuses to accept that is why we have the problem we have today with illegal aliens attempting to force their way into this country without the proper permission or documentation.
If there is a "compromise" position on this issue why can't it be....if you come here, come here legally. If you're here illegally...come forward and get in line to apply to stay legally or face deportation. If you attempt to break in, you will be caught and/or prosecuted and/or deported.
That's the position of the Right on this and I can't see where it's wrong. That is NOT what the Left wants or how it operates on this, and as I said getting to the answer of that question (why not) begins to outline the parameters of how this problem is ultimately solved.
The Left simply will not be honest though about why they want all of these folks coming in here illegally. Why not?
Agreed. So why does the Left oppose a Wall and stricter border enforcment?
No one says we can't. We take in thousands daily, millions annually. We're a nation of immigrants! But we are also a nation of Laws. We must have LEGAL immigration that's controlled and based on merit.
We do need more labor. I'm not sure we need "cheap" labor. We need more productive, qualified, competent, and willing skilled workers who will provide our additional needed labor at market rates. Our economy cannot survive using "cheap" labor because we need wages growing as our economy expands. "Cheap" labor is an open invitation to exploitation and ultimately hurts American wages. We need immigration based on merit, among those who help us add needed skills to the demands of a dynamic growing economy!
No it isn't. If they come here legally there is no "guarantee" they will get in quickly or easily but it's not impossible. Some folks wait years, but do eventually make it in. Anything worth having is worth waiting for. If they really want to become Americans, take a number and get in line.
This is partially true (see above on economic needs) If by "grandstanding" you mean insisting our Laws be followed...I agree we need that. In fact we must insist on it to protect our sovereignty. Look at Germany and Great Britain if you want to see what happens in America without legal controls and limits to our immigration.:scream:
They are not treated inhumanly...and we need to treat them as they are...criminals who broke our Laws. No one is abused, or tortured, or even killed trying to break in here. However they are often caught, processed, and ultimately deported. If they commit crimes after breaking in here, they are arrested and jailed if we can catch 'em or get to 'em hiding in a "Sanctuary city"(WTF
?)Ironically, this was offered to the Left in the latest DACA deal, and they turned it down! I'm for allowing non criminal illegals permission to stay based on two conditions. Pay a fine after being accounted for, and they can't vote until they apply for and become legal citizens. They will have to get on a "wait list" just like anyone else because they broke the Law coming here. But under no circumstances do they then get voting privileges. They are still criminals and MUST pay a fine for their crime. They can stay with a green card as long as they keep working and remain crime free. But no Welfare, and NO VOTING until they establish citizenship. Don't like that...leave and come back in legally.
You are not listening then to most of the Leftist radicals and protestors out there marching and some of the Democrat elected representatives.
"No borders, No Walls, we don't need your F'*ckn' Laws!"
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agree with everything except the illegals living here part....well said
Agreed. So why does the Left oppose a Wall and stricter border enforcment?
No one says we can't. We take in thousands daily, millions annually. We're a nation of immigrants! But we are also a nation of Laws. We must have LEGAL immigration that's controlled and based on merit.
We do need more labor. I'm not sure we need "cheap" labor. We need more productive, qualified, competent, and willing skilled workers who will provide our additional needed labor at market rates. Our economy cannot survive using "cheap" labor because we need wages growing as our economy expands. "Cheap" labor is an open invitation to exploitation and ultimately hurts American wages. We need immigration based on merit, among those who help us add needed skills to the demands of a dynamic growing economy!
No it isn't. If they come here legally there is no "guarantee" they will get in quickly or easily but it's not impossible. Some folks wait years, but do eventually make it in. Anything worth having is worth waiting for. If they really want to become Americans, take a number and get in line.
This is partially true (see above on economic needs) If by "grandstanding" you mean insisting our Laws be followed...I agree we need that. In fact we must insist on it to protect our sovereignty. Look at Germany and Great Britain if you want to see what happens in America without legal controls and limits to our immigration.:scream:
They are not treated inhumanly...and we need to treat them as they are...criminals who broke our Laws. No one is abused, or tortured, or even killed trying to break in here. However they are often caught, processed, and ultimately deported. If they commit crimes after breaking in here, they are arrested and jailed if we can catch 'em or get to 'em hiding in a "Sanctuary city"(WTF
Ironically, this was offered to the Left in the latest DACA deal, and they turned it down! I'm for allowing non criminal illegals permission to stay based on two conditions. Pay a fine after being accounted for, and they can't vote until they apply for and become legal citizens. They will have to get on a "wait list" just like anyone else because they broke the Law coming here. But under no circumstances do they then get voting privileges. They are still criminals and MUST pay a fine for their crime. They can stay with a green card as long as they keep working and remain crime free. But no Welfare, and NO VOTING until they establish citizenship. Don't like that...leave and come back in legally.
You are not listening then to most of the Leftist radicals and protestors out there marching and some of the Democrat elected representatives.
"No borders, No Walls, we don't need your F'*ckn' Laws!"
Lordy, why don't you do a little research Richard. Your entire response is full of made up shit and lies. We don't take in millions annually. About 1.2 million is not millions. Quit your lying.
OK fine. So how many more do we take in since you've done your research suggesting "I personally believe we need and can support more cheap labor"?
Was that remark based on sound economic research or your own made up assessment of our immigrant capacity? The point is we already allow scores of immigrants to legally enter the country. The thread is about controlling or stopping the flow of illegals. I gather you strongly support that?
Fair enough. Quote my lies and post a fact based Truthful statement refuting it or demonstrating what I deliberately presented as false or non factual information. You made the charge now back it up.
No response or factual rebuttals? Liars gonna lie huh OM1?
Why don't we vote on it before we read it? That was stupid on the part of the Dems, and building a wall to test how effective it is is a bad solution for this.
You claim that we are being overrun, but illegal immigration is down and has been since before Trump took office. We have employed electronic sensors that could be every bit as effective with sufficient agents to support as a wall could ever be. The cost of those sensors is near zero compared with the cost of a 2500 mile wall. Plus the wall does nothing to stop people who are using tunnels to get across the border.
I'm not opposed to a wall where it makes sense. I'm not sure how a wall makes sense at a river.
I actually think positioning our troops along that border is the most cost-effective and best solution but too many folks on the left would have a major cow over that, so I see the wall as a cost-effective substitute.
As for the declining numbers of folks trying to illegally break into here, if that's the case then why all the fuss over breaking up families? Who is it that's still lining up trying to get in here without proper authorization?
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I actually thought we did vote on that wall in 2016 since one of the major candidates made it a key part of his campaign. As for testing its effectiveness how would we know how well it works unless and until it's built?
You also said my post was "filled"with lies so I'm waiting for you to post them.
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Mule, respect for your opinion. I can tell you that the sensors, while effective, it’s a lot more difficult than you think. We’re short probably 5k agents from being able to make that solution feasible. When you factor in salaries and overhead, costs are pretty significant for your solution. The Wall would be effective. It would cut down on a lot and would allow us to refocus our efforts towards shutting off the tunnels.
I’m guessing you haven’t ever been on the border when you reference he river?
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