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How can the Pens win when their #1 center has 11 even strength points

Original Mountaineer1

Heisman Winner
Aug 27, 2001
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In 29 games??? He has been held off the scoreboard in 16 of 29 games. But the biggest issue is the fact that the Pens can't find anyone to produce on his line. Kind of makes you think the problem isn't the wingers but the center doesn't it?
 
Seems to me Sid has been the lightning rod for an overwhelming majority of the team's current problems; both around the League and in Pittsburgh. No question Kessel is being questioned for his comparative lack of production, but I myself don't hear too many folks blaming the wingers.....now defense is clearly another story.....for what currently ails the team.

The consistent message I myself am hearing from Pittsburgh is the Penguins just flat need more production from their superstars; and that list will absolutely always start with Crosby.
 
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Oh he bares some responsibility alright...I do still see him engaged in the play alot but people would be fooling themselves if they thought his play hasn't declined over the last few years. I don't know if it's nagging injury symptoms, concussion issues or what...but he needs to be better, needs to get back to that level ABOVE. Not sure we will see that in the future unfortunately....

Another question....how are the Pens going to win without their #1 goalie (out indefinite)??? He has held them in a few games they had no business winning. This D is problematic when it comes to both defending and transitional play...the number of odd man rushes vs the opposition has to be about half of what it was a few years ago. That boils down to coaching, puck moving talent, and a centre willing to engage more in the defensive zone imo....

Things could get ugly real quick...hopefully Flower is back soon and the change behind the bench works especially in the next few games...
 
One more thing I've also noticed is how many passes on which the team seems to fail to connect.......

And I don't mean those miserable cross-ice passes that Sid and Letang (and even Geno) still tee up for the opposing penalty killers on the PP in the attacking zone. I'm just talking about the normal sort-of play-making passes that have been consistently bouncing off blades pretty much all season.

The Pens were always one of the best passing/play-making teams in the business, and they're looking like one of the worst these days. It's borderline incredible how many open men have been unable to simply receive a pass in the scoring zone; both at even strength and on the PP.

Meanwhile, I'll absolutely never forget this tic-tac-toe play from 2 years ago.....even though it seems like about 10......and three of those four are still regulars.

 
One more thing I've also noticed is how many passes on which the team seems to fail to connect.......

And I don't mean those miserable cross-ice passes that Sid and Letang (and even Geno) still tee up for the opposing penalty killers on the PP in the attacking zone. I'm just talking about the normal sort-of play-making passes that have been consistently bouncing off blades pretty much all season.

The Pens were always one of the best passing/play-making teams in the business, and they're looking like one of the worst these days. It's borderline incredible how many open men have been unable to simply receive a pass in the scoring zone; both at even strength and on the PP.

Meanwhile, I'll absolutely never forget this tic-tac-toe play from 2 years ago.....even though it seems like about 10......and three of those four are still regulars.


I have noticed this too. In addition they fail to hold pucks in at the line that many teams routinely stop and control. Not to pick on Sid, but the goal he didn't score against the Kings when he was parked at the side of the net is the perfect example of what you are talking about. 95% of the time that is a goal....he flubbed it. Kessel between the circles against the Caps and he fired 3 feet over the cross bar...he was stationary with the puck not moving much if at all. Malkin pulled the puck around Holtby and it rolled off his stick on a play he normally finishes. At some point, these guys have to produce.
 
I have noticed this too. In addition they fail to hold pucks in at the line that many teams routinely stop and control. Not to pick on Sid, but the goal he didn't score against the Kings when he was parked at the side of the net is the perfect example of what you are talking about. 95% of the time that is a goal....he flubbed it. Kessel between the circles against the Caps and he fired 3 feet over the cross bar...he was stationary with the puck not moving much if at all. Malkin pulled the puck around Holtby and it rolled off his stick on a play he normally finishes. At some point, these guys have to produce.
Kessel has completely missed a wide-open net several times in the past couple of weeks. It might be time for wholesale changes. Keep Malkin and MAF and dangle everybody else out there to see what they can get in return.
 
Kessel has completely missed a wide-open net several times in the past couple of weeks. It might be time for wholesale changes. Keep Malkin and MAF and dangle everybody else out there to see what they can get in return.

I am not sure what to do. I'd give Sullivan a shot to turn things around by the end of January. If he can't, you have to start selling off the pieces and parts that will fetch a good return of young talent. I can't tell if the play of Sid and Letang (the two biggest disappointments to date) was/is the result of Johnston's style, lack of desire, nagging injury, or bad luck. It does seem odd that the opponents capitalize on every great break and the Pens don't seem to even get a break. Over the last 4-5 games, the Pens have hit the pipes 10 times or more it seems. As a whole, the team seems less than a 100% focused, and we all see that they aren't a talented enough team to take shifts or games off and be successful.
 
I have noticed this too. In addition they fail to hold pucks in at the line that many teams routinely stop and control. Not to pick on Sid, but the goal he didn't score against the Kings when he was parked at the side of the net is the perfect example of what you are talking about. 95% of the time that is a goal....he flubbed it. Kessel between the circles against the Caps and he fired 3 feet over the cross bar...he was stationary with the puck not moving much if at all. Malkin pulled the puck around Holtby and it rolled off his stick on a play he normally finishes. At some point, these guys have to produce.

Oh, and since we're concentrating on the things they're doing poorly, let's not forget how they're leading the entire hockey universe.....including the rest of the League, the NA professional minor leagues, the US universities, and the entire Canadian Juniors.....in offside calls.

Not sure that was MJ's fault, but I decided about a month ago I was going to blame his system for this problem; we'll now see if Sully can cure that problem.
 
Oh, and since we're concentrating on the things they're doing poorly, let's not forget how they're leading the entire hockey universe.....including the rest of the League, the NA professional minor leagues, the US universities, and the entire Canadian Juniors.....in offside calls.

Not sure that was MJ's fault, but I decided about a month ago I was going to blame his system for this problem; we'll now see if Sully can cure that problem.

How about Crosby's offside in OT against the Kings.....I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and cite fatigue there. If he did that intentionally (as he has been accused of in the past) he ought to fined by the team. Even Errey went off on Sid on that play.
 
Yep...good points...the whole lot of them are on the wrong side of the blue line an awful lot...pay close attention to Kessel next few games...he was a whipping boy up here for that very reason and the shots well wide (while at other times looking every bit a sniper), up here for years...He also tends to loaf it quite a bit. Ron Wilson actually got production out of him most of the time when he coached the Laughs, cause he was on his ass ALL THE TIME. I am hopeful Sullivan has this same tact....

Who in the thread has an idea about the Goalkeeper up from WB/S? Anyone have a book on him? Will he get a start or 2 in order to relieve Zatkoff?

And yes Euell...we may well be into sell mode soon...my worry is what do we get for a guy like Kessel, Letang and especially Sid? The shine has come off that rose a bit and at 10 mil per the teams that can afford him are few and far for what we want in return, DRAFTS...the teams will undoubtedly unload their problem on the Pens in order to get any sort of quality picks or young talent in return...it will take a special circumstance in this cap era to make it happen...I am now running through the possibilities in my head lol...
 
Yep...good points...the whole lot of them are on the wrong side of the blue line an awful lot...pay close attention to Kessel next few games...he was a whipping boy up here for that very reason and the shots well wide (while at other times looking every bit a sniper), up here for years...He also tends to loaf it quite a bit. Ron Wilson actually got production out of him most of the time when he coached the Laughs, cause he was on his ass ALL THE TIME. I am hopeful Sullivan has this same tact....

Who in the thread has an idea about the Goalkeeper up from WB/S? Anyone have a book on him? Will he get a start or 2 in order to relieve Zatkoff?

And yes Euell...we may well be into sell mode soon...my worry is what do we get for a guy like Kessel, Letang and especially Sid? The shine has come off that rose a bit and at 10 mil per the teams that can afford him are few and far for what we want in return, DRAFTS...the teams will undoubtedly unload their problem on the Pens in order to get any sort of quality picks or young talent in return...it will take a special circumstance in this cap era to make it happen...I am now running through the possibilities in my head lol...
Toronto, I cringed when Pens gave Letang that big contract a couple of years ago. Last year I thought maybe I was wrong as I thought he played pretty well. This year he was back to old form as I think he was something like a -14 or so when he got hurt. BTW, Pens just got scorched by their old teammate Max Talbott.
 
In all honesty Pens...again shafted on some calls (Horny bounced around by 3-4 Bruins and gets 2 mins for what???), but still...go apologise to Zatkoff...I dont care how many shots Rask faced...

Oh and also Marchand is a complete asshat, but then we all knew this already....where is OUR asshat? Oh yeah...we don't have one....and this is but ONE of the problems....
 
In all honesty Pens...again shafted on some calls (Horny bounced around by 3-4 Bruins and gets 2 mins for what???), but still...go apologise toyers Zatkoff...I dont care how many shots Rask faced...

Oh and also Marchand is a complete asshat, but then we all knew this already....where is OUR asshat? Oh yeah...we don't have one....and this is but ONE of the problems....
Two things: Penalty call on Honrnqvist was one of the worst calls I've ever seen. I told my buddy before the game the three players I hate most in the league were Ovechkin, P,K, Subban, and Marchand.
 
Those 3 would be high on my list too Euell...I would give Subban a minor pass based on the fact he made a massive donation to the Montreal hospitals....but on the ice his demeanor can be that of a complete jerk...
Speaking of PK...here's a ridiculous story for you all...the 'language police' of Quebec as they are unaffectionately known in english Canada would now like all media types and broadcasters to pronounce PK in the french vernacular (pronounced P'A' K'AH') if you can believe it!?! These same gov't paid leeches demand that the word tailgate during Montreal Alouettes games be referred to as a 'rendezvous des match'...I $hit you not! Perhaps this will give you an idea how the rest of Canada views the Francophone population in Quebec as spoiled whiners. ...I understand the need to protect a distinct language but can you believe that?!? Just laughable. ...
 
Regarding last night, Talbot's was a downright miserable GA by Zatkoff; in a close game, an NHL goaltender simply cannot allow a goal like that where he has a clean, unobstructed look......and especially to a guy who'll never be confused with Brett Hull (or even Brad Marchand). That Hornqvist call you guys are referring to must have happened in the 3rd period; I gave up on the game after the 2nd and turned on Road to the NHL Winter Classic on Epix (during which I fell asleep).

What's surprising to me about the Pens is not so much that I feel bad, but that I'm starting to lose interest. Even though their push has actually been pretty decent the past two games......and it's not like they're losing to shitty opponents.....the fact they can't put any extended scoring pressure on the opponent is beginning to have an unsolvable appearance.

Granted, there are still 50 games to play, and a lot can happen; but we're essentially to Christmas and the team hasn't come even close to figuring out how to score (largely because Geno has recently fallen back to earth). Of course, the fact they still can't miss a post on their few really good shots.....can't connect on a key pass without it glancing off a blade (or being tipped).......and can't make anything happen in the crease......makes things that much worse.

About the only thing I found encouraging from last night's game is that, at least for now, it appears as though Daley actually might be a legitimate puck mover. He's got miles to go before he figures out what everybody is doing.....or is at least supposed to be doing.....but he should have the green light to go coast to coast whenever he has the option. Still not sure how much the Fleury loss is going to be, though you have to think last night could have had a different trajectory if the Hayes goal.....which resulted from its own bad Pens break.....had merely broken a scoreless tie.

BTW t, Matt Murray is an excellent......if not downright elite.....goaltending prospect. The kid is tall and skinny.....kind of like a taller Ryan Miller.....but is, by most accounts, considered very talented. His claim to fame thus far is his 300+ minute scoreless streak last season in Wilkes Barre; the longest shutout streak in AHL history. He's considered by most everyone to be MAF's heir apparent; in fact most figured, after another full season in WB/S, he'd be ready to be MAF's full-time backup in Pittsburgh next season.

Then, he'd theoretically be ready to begin pushing for the #1 job beginning in 17/18 (and give the team an exit strategy for MAF with just a season or two left on his deal). One thing which happens now that Murray is having at least a cup of coffee in the League this season is that the franchise will get an earlier-then-expected good look at Tristan Jarry in the Baby Pens goal.

I find myself wondering if Murray happens to show well during MAF's injury stint.....and I believe he's expected to play this weekend, more than likely on Saturday versus Carolina.......will he remain with the team (and Zatkoff gets demoted), or if he'd be returned full-time to WB/S.
 
Speaking of PK...here's a ridiculous story for you all...the 'language police' of Quebec as they are unaffectionately known in english Canada would now like all media types and broadcasters to pronounce PK in the french vernacular (pronounced P'A' K'AH') if you can believe it!?! These same gov't paid leeches demand that the word tailgate during Montreal Alouettes games be referred to as a 'rendezvous des match'...I $hit you not! Perhaps this will give you an idea how the rest of Canada views the Francophone population in Quebec as spoiled whiners. ...I understand the need to protect a distinct language but can you believe that?!? Just laughable. ...

That is hysterical; but why in the hell do the Quebcois give two shits about stuff like that on CBC and TSN......don't they all watch Radio-Canada and RDS ??
 
Regarding last night, Talbot's was a downright miserable GA by Zatkoff; in a close game, an NHL goaltender simply cannot allow a goal like that where he has a clean, unobstructed look......and especially to a guy who'll never be confused with Brett Hull (or even Brad Marchand). That Hornqvist call you guys are referring to must have happened in the 3rd period; I gave up on the game after the 2nd and turned on Road to the NHL Winter Classic on Epix (during which I fell asleep).

What's surprising to me about the Pens is not so much that I feel bad, but that I'm starting to lose interest. Even though their push has actually been pretty decent the past two games......and it's not like they're losing to shitty opponents.....the fact they can't put any extended scoring pressure on the opponent is beginning to have an unsolvable appearance.

Granted, there are still 50 games to play, and a lot can happen; but we're essentially to Christmas and the team hasn't come even close to figuring out how to score (largely because Geno has recently fallen back to earth). Of course, the fact they still can't miss a post on their few really good shots.....can't connect on a key pass without it glancing off a blade (or being tipped).......and can't make anything happen in the crease......makes things that much worse.

About the only thing I found encouraging from last night's game is that, at least for now, it appears as though Daley actually might be a legitimate puck mover. He's got miles to go before he figures out what everybody is doing.....or is at least supposed to be doing.....but he should have the green light to go coast to coast whenever he has the option. Still not sure how much the Fleury loss is going to be, though you have to think last night could have had a different trajectory if the Hayes goal.....which resulted from its own bad Pens break.....had merely broken a scoreless tie.

BTW t, Matt Murray is an excellent......if not downright elite.....goaltending prospect. The kid is tall and skinny.....kind of like a taller Ryan Miller.....but is, by most accounts, considered very talented. His claim to fame thus far is his 300+ minute scoreless streak last season in Wilkes Barre; the longest shutout streak in AHL history. He's considered by most everyone to be MAF's heir apparent; in fact most figured, after another full season in WB/S, he'd be ready to be MAF's full-time backup in Pittsburgh next season.

Then, he'd theoretically be ready to begin pushing for the #1 job beginning in 17/18 (and give the team an exit strategy for MAF with just a season or two left on his deal). One thing which happens now that Murray is having at least a cup of coffee in the League this season is that the franchise will get an earlier-then-expected good look at Tristan Jarry in the Baby Pens goal.

I find myself wondering if Murray happens to show well during MAF's injury stint.....and I believe he's expected to play this weekend, more than likely on Saturday versus Carolina.......will he remain with the team (and Zatkoff gets demoted), or if he'd be returned full-time to WB/S.
Cool Man, Yes, the penalty was in the third. Hornqvist was skating down the ice when two Bruins skated in on him from either side and sandwiched him and one went down and they called a minor on Hornqvist. I don't even remember now what they called it (interference?, roughing?)
Eager to see what Murray can do.
 
That is hysterical; but why in the hell do the Quebcois give two shits about stuff like that on CBC and TSN......don't they all watch Radio-Canada and RDS ??
You would think so, eh? Ridiculous...unless the RDS crew is pronouncing his name as PK like us English language folk speak it? Even still what the heck would that matter?!? It's always something with them...even my transplanted Quebecois friends, and Sudbury (Ont) French relative's (wife's side) find this kind of stuff highly annoying....
 
Cool Man, Yes, the penalty was in the third. Hornqvist was skating down the ice when two Bruins skated in on him from either side and sandwiched him and one went down and they called a minor on Hornqvist. I don't even remember now what they called it (interference?, roughing?)
Eager to see what Murray can do.
Indeed it was likely the most ridiculous call you, I or anyone else for that matter had seen in some time!
 
I am not sure what to do. I'd give Sullivan a shot to turn things around by the end of January. If he can't, you have to start selling off the pieces and parts that will fetch a good return of young talent. I can't tell if the play of Sid and Letang (the two biggest disappointments to date) was/is the result of Johnston's style, lack of desire, nagging injury, or bad luck. It does seem odd that the opponents capitalize on every great break and the Pens don't seem to even get a break. Over the last 4-5 games, the Pens have hit the pipes 10 times or more it seems. As a whole, the team seems less than a 100% focused, and we all see that they aren't a talented enough team to take shifts or games off and be successful.
I think "Big Ben struck one" a couple of times last night too OM. I know Kunitz hit the pipe once.
 
Hey t, Matt Murray's career stats in the AHL were listed in this morning's Pgh Tribune Review:

Matt Murray file

Games: 58

Record: 37-15-3

Goals-against average: 1.66

Save percentage: .940

Shutouts: 16​

You gotta' admit.....and even though numbers usually don't tell the entire story.....those are pretty impressive by most anyone's standards.
 
Hey t, Matt Murray's career stats in the AHL were listed in this morning's Pgh Tribune Review:

Matt Murray file

Games: 58

Record: 37-15-3

Goals-against average: 1.66

Save percentage: .940

Shutouts: 16​

You gotta' admit.....and even though numbers usually don't tell the entire story.....those are pretty impressive by most anyone's standards.

I agree wholeheartedly. Looking forward to seeing him between the pipes. There hasn't been much else to get excited about.
 
Hey t, Matt Murray's career stats in the AHL were listed in this morning's Pgh Tribune Review:

Matt Murray file

Games: 58

Record: 37-15-3

Goals-against average: 1.66

Save percentage: .940

Shutouts: 16​

You gotta' admit.....and even though numbers usually don't tell the entire story.....those are pretty impressive by most anyone's standards.
Holy crap! Those stats are off the charts in my books! Yes...let's get a good look at him!
I see he is a Thunder Bay boy [thumb2] and he played in the Soo for his junior hockey so I really never would have seen any of him, seeing as I don't think I've ever seen a game with the Pete's/Soo lol...what strikes me even more is )although he's a goalie which you can sometimes luck out in later rounds), 83rd overall sounds like a bargain!
 
The only time I've seen Murray was in the preseason this year (versus Tampa) when they played the Kraft Hockeyville game in Johnstown PA. Obviously, preseason is quite a different animal than regular season; but my distinct recollection is that Murray looked pretty solid in the net (in winning 4-2) versus a reasonably well-stocked Lightning roster.

Not that it matters, but I think that may have been the last (and only) game in which Plotnikov scored a goal for the Pens.
 
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