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Holgorsen Is A Choker Who Can't Win A Big Game

ColoradoMountaineer

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Sep 3, 2007
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Once Again Holgorsen chokes in a Big game but its not surprising since he hasn't won a big game since 2014. Fuente is in his 2nd year at Va tech and he was able to out coach this clown. Holgorsen probably picked this choker trait up when he coached under Sumlin at houston that bum blew a 44-10 lead tonight. Don't Worry Pitt had allot of empty seats in their stadium this weekend. I know that somehow this solves everything.
 
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At least I support my team.
Everyone on here supports the team. Holgorsen makes 3.5 million a year to produce results. The guy just lost to team with a 2nd year coach. He has been here 7 years. When is he going start winning big games? Maybe you should start questioning the status quo from time to time instead spewing the better luck next time BS.
 
It's a fair assessment of DH's time here even if obviously baiting for an argument.

The question is which has always been the issue with DH is the fear of the program bottoming out with a new staff. We all know the disadvantages of the WV job. Lack of recruiting base, big step below the typical big state U in terms of $$, facilities, academics, and brand. We are probably overachievers given the hand we are dealt. So a poor hire can knock this thing off the tracks for a very long time, look at Nebraska.

DH is far from a God here but unless he bottoms out he offers stability and the occasional flirting with greatness. He is in his 7th season so do we also really want to tear down what we have let him spend the last 7 years building so another guy can come in and probably also need to learn on the job like DH did?

IMO at this current time, our best bet is to keep him. Maybe we have Grier AND a Defense next season, in his system that could be a team that competes for a Natty.
 
Everyone on here supports the team. Holgorsen makes 3.5 million a year to produce results. The guy just lost to team with a 2nd year coach. He has been here 7 years. When is he going start winning big games? Maybe you should start questioning the status quo from time to time instead spewing the better luck next time BS.

#15 Clemson
#23 Cincinnati
#25 Baylor
#11 Texas
#11 Oklahoma State
#4 Baylor
 
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It's a fair assessment of DH's time here even if obviously baiting for an argument.

The question is which has always been the issue with DH is the fear of the program bottoming out with a new staff. We all know the disadvantages of the WV job. Lack of recruiting base, big step below the typical big state U in terms of $$, facilities, academics, and brand. We are probably overachievers given the hand we are dealt. So a poor hire can knock this thing off the tracks for a very long time, look at Nebraska.

DH is far from a God here but unless he bottoms out he offers stability and the occasional flirting with greatness. He is in his 7th season so do we also really want to tear down what we have let him spend the last 7 years building so another guy can come in and probably also need to learn on the job like DH did?

IMO at this current time, our best bet is to keep him. Maybe we have Grier AND a Defense next season, in his system that could be a team that competes for a Natty.
We will never compete for a natty with this guy. Several coachs have already proven that wvu can win 7 games in a season. The offense was ineffiecient tonight like it always has been. We just got beat by a team with a 2nd year coach that rely's on turning 3 star players into 5 star players like we do. The guy hasn't beaten a ranked team since 2014. If this guy was special the program would be further along than it is now in year 7.
 
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#15 Clemson
#23 Cincinnati
#25 Baylor
#11 Texas
#11 Oklahoma State
#4 Baylor
Get real the last win against a ranked team was almost 3 years ago. Every game you mentioned is ancient history. Who has he beaten lately? In year 7 you should be beating A Va tech team with a 2nd year coach. The miami game and Va tech games are proof the program is stuck in neutral. This guy isn't the answer.
 
We will never compete for a natty with this guy. Several coachs have already proven that wvu can win 7 games in a season. The offense was ineffiecient tonight like it always has been. We just got beat by a team with a 2nd year coach that rely's on turning 3 star players into 5 star players like we do. The guy hasn't beaten a ranked team since 2014. If this guy was special the program would be further along than it is now in year 7.

He is definitely not "special", the argument from me is basically that he does enough to not get fired. Ranked team argument does nothing for me, you beat who is in front of you. Would last year have been so much better if we swept the ranked opponents but choked vs KSU, Baylor, and Texas?
 
We will never compete for a natty with this guy. Several coachs have already proven that wvu can win 7 games in a season. The offense was ineffiecient tonight like it always has been. We just got beat by a team with a 2nd year coach that rely's on turning 3 star players into 5 star players like we do. The guy hasn't beaten a ranked team since 2014. If this guy was special the program would be further along than it is now in year 7.

Yep. Rich Rod had his team 1 game away from a national title game in his 7th year and each year that Rich Rod coached, the team improved.

Dana peaked in his first year with a team that was made up of Bill Stewart's recruits and didn't have the worst assistant coach in the history of WVU named "Joe DeForest" and he has regressed every year (w/ last year being the exception record wise)
 
Yep. Rich Rod had his team 1 game away from a national title game in his 7th year and each year that Rich Rod coached, the team improved.

Dana peaked in his first year with a team that was made up of Bill Stewart's recruits and didn't have the worst assistant coach in the history of WVU named "Joe DeForest" and he has regressed every year (w/ last year being the exception record wise)

I would argue he has improved every year since the 4-8 year although only in baby steps. This year might be an exception as tonight's loss really soured me on our season outlook. I do not buy VT as a great team this year, I would not be surprised if we have difficulties pulling away from ECU this week if our D tonight was any indication.
 
He is definitely not "special", the argument from me is basically that he does enough to not get fired. Ranked team argument does nothing for me, you beat who is in front of you. Would last year have been so much better if we swept the ranked opponents but choked vs KSU, Baylor, and Texas?
I would rather have the wins against ranked teams they define a program. Last year we won 10 games but we never proved we could beat a good team. The KSU win was probably the best win but they were a 2-2 team at that point. We barley beat Texas and Baylor in november and they were weak teams. A legitate 10 win team would have stomped both of those teams. The game against Miami proved we were a 7-8 win team that got lucky. The current trajectory of the program under this guy is beat the weak, Split with the average and get devoured by the strong. We can do better than this.
 
I would argue he has improved every year since the 4-8 year although only in baby steps. This year might be an exception as tonight's loss really soured me on our season outlook. I do not buy VT as a great team this year, I would not be surprised if we have difficulties pulling away from ECU this week if our D tonight was any indication.

I think there comes a time where you have to decide if years of mediocrity with not much chance of competing for a Conference championship is worth it just for the stabilization of the program and going 6-6 each year. Eventually that mediocrity hurts recruiting and can hurt the fan base. I

You have coaches getting fired from programs that become stagnant and mediocre and the new coach comes in and can change the whole outlook on a program. Look at VT, Beamer was basically forced into retirement b/c of how stagnant the program started become and the right hire has turned them completely around. Also look at Miami, they have been down for years and one good hire has them right back on track to being a powerhouse. I think WVU can be one of those schools able to make a succcessful change.

I think Dana has hit his ceiling at WVU already and we can hire another coach who can do better to excite the fan base again and compete in the Big 12.
 
The Miami loss is the biggest overreaction ever. Bowl games are a crap shoot, they are meaningless unless it's a major one or a playoff. Hard to get guys motivated after a long layoff and most significant starters headed to the NFL combine. The kid from Stanford straight up sat out the game last year, shows what these kids think of them.
 
I think there comes a time where you have to decide if years of mediocrity with not much chance of competing for a Conference championship is worth it just for the stabilization of the program and going 6-6 each year. Eventually that mediocrity hurts recruiting and can hurt the fan base. I

You have coaches getting fired from programs that become stagnant and mediocre and the new coach comes in and can change the whole outlook on a program. Look at VT, Beamer was basically forced into retirement b/c of how stagnant the program started become and the right hire has turned them completely around. Also look at Miami, they have been down for years and one good hire has them right back on track to being a powerhouse. I think WVU can be one of those schools able to make a succcessful change.

I think Dana has hit his ceiling at WVU already and we can hire another coach who can do better to excite the fan base again and compete in the Big 12.

IMO it really comes down to who the options are and what the outlook is for next season.

If we go 6-6 and Grier is going to the NFL and Gibson leaves then it's probably time to cut bait

If we go 6-6 but the offense is explosive, Grier fore goes the draft, and the D shows signs of life at the end of the season then it's probably a good bet not to tear the thing down just yet.

Additionally if we're at a crossroads and our coaching options are guys like Doc, Rich Rod, or a coordinator then again it's probably best we stay the current course.
 
The Miami loss is the biggest overreaction ever. Bowl games are a crap shoot, they are meaningless unless it's a major one or a playoff. Hard to get guys motivated after a long layoff and most significant starters headed to the NFL combine. The kid from Stanford straight up sat out the game last year, shows what these kids think of them.

Those bowl games can lead over to next year and create excitement. Miami won that bowl game and has helped Mark Richt with recruiting and turning around Miami football.

Most people remember football teams by not really looking at their season record, but by looking at how they did it the bowl game and what their bowl record is. Bowl games is where you truly see how good your coaches are at developing and strategizing a game plan against a team you usually are not familiar with and it also helps you to be able to judge your player's ability against different schemes, etc.
 
The Miami loss is the biggest overreaction ever. Bowl games are a crap shoot, they are meaningless unless it's a major one or a playoff. Hard to get guys motivated after a long layoff and most significant starters headed to the NFL combine. The kid from Stanford straight up sat out the game last year, shows what these kids think of them.
Your rationalization is the biggest cop out ever. What the heck was Miami's motivation? They have literally nothing to gain from a bowl against WVU. Hell, half the country doesn't even know we exist and we're not a big enough name to boost anyone's resume if Miami beats us. Meanwhile, no matter how long Miami has been down a win against them always carries a ton of credibility due to their brand and past achievements. We had everything to gain, Miami had nothing to gain. Yet the team that should've had far less motivation played much better while the team that should've had all the motivation in the world crapped the bed.
 
The Miami loss is the biggest overreaction ever. Bowl games are a crap shoot, they are meaningless unless it's a major one or a playoff. Hard to get guys motivated after a long layoff and most significant starters headed to the NFL combine. The kid from Stanford straight up sat out the game last year, shows what these kids think of them.
If the program was heading in the right direction would'nt you expect to beat and 8-4 Miami team? If we would have won people would have said big deal they were 8-4 but for years all we heard is we can't do better than 7-5 were in the big 12 blah blah blah. So we end winning 10 games in the big 12 and we find out we can't even beat 2 former rivals that are in a conference that many have said for years was inferior to the big 12. It doesn't give many allot of confidence that were on the right track.
 
Wrong. We won 10 games. Fact
We were a 10 win team. Fact.
We played the 26th toughest schedule in nation. Fact.
The team's won loss record has improved each year since 2013. Fact.
You don't get rid of a coach with those facts. Let's see what happens with the rest of this season.
For each of those examples of teams switching coaches you gave, there are twice as many examples of teams switching and going backward. E.g., Nebraska, Oregon, Pitt, UCLA, Texas, LSU. The list goes on and on.
Dana is a decent coach who is recruiting pretty well right now. It's less than clear that there will be someone better available. WVU is a program that benefits from stability. We have certain inherent issues that must be overcome to win - and that takes a coach who understands them and knows how to overcome them. Examples: declining State population, limited in state recruiting, distance to other league teams etc. they can be overcome for sure. But it takes the right coach. I think Dana has figured that all out. But the question is whether he can take wvu to the next level- conf championship. I don't know the answer. But as of the last 3 seasons he's been heading upward not downward.

I would rather have the wins against ranked teams they define a program. Last year we won 10 games but we never proved we could beat a good team. The KSU win was probably the best win but they were a 2-2 team at that point. We barley beat Texas and Baylor in november and they were weak teams. A legitate 10 win team would have stomped both of those teams. The game against Miami proved we were a 7-8 win team that got lucky. The current trajectory of the program under this guy is beat the weak, Split with the average and get devoured by the strong. We can do better than this.
 
Wrong. We won 10 games. Fact
We were a 10 win team. Fact.
We played the 26th toughest schedule in nation. Fact.
The team's won loss record has improved each year since 2013. Fact.
You don't get rid of a coach with those facts. Let's see what happens with the rest of this season.
For each of those examples of teams switching coaches you gave, there are twice as many examples of teams switching and going backward. E.g., Nebraska, Oregon, Pitt, UCLA, Texas, LSU. The list goes on and on.
Dana is a decent coach who is recruiting pretty well right now. It's less than clear that there will be someone better available. WVU is a program that benefits from stability. We have certain inherent issues that must be overcome to win - and that takes a coach who understands them and knows how to overcome them. Examples: declining State population, limited in state recruiting, distance to other league teams etc. they can be overcome for sure. But it takes the right coach. I think Dana has figured that all out. But the question is whether he can take wvu to the next level- conf championship. I don't know the answer. But as of the last 3 seasons he's been heading upward not downward.
Wrong we won ten games and not one against a ranked team. We haven't won a game against a ranked team in almost 3 years. How can you say that oregon an pitt have gone backwards with their coaching changes? narduzzi beat 2 top ten teams last season. Oregon has a new coach that has only coached 1 game the last guy they had got his job because chip kelly left for the nfl. Texas's new coach has only coached 1 game but the results after 1 game aren't any different than his predcessor. Dana hasn't figured anything out he only figures out new ways to lose games. If the guy was the right guy for the job he would'nt be losing to programs with 2nd year coachs that rely on turning 3 star players into 5 star players. Wvu has put more players in the Nfl than any other school in the big 12 except oklahoma since we have been Big 12 members but never finished higher than 3rd. This year will be the same old story lose the important games and win the games against the weak teams. Winning games against ranked opponents is what defines a program not beating average teams.
 
Wrong. We won 10 games. Fact
We were a 10 win team. Fact.
We played the 26th toughest schedule in nation. Fact.
The team's won loss record has improved each year since 2013. Fact.
You don't get rid of a coach with those facts. Let's see what happens with the rest of this season.
For each of those examples of teams switching coaches you gave, there are twice as many examples of teams switching and going backward. E.g., Nebraska, Oregon, Pitt, UCLA, Texas, LSU. The list goes on and on.
Dana is a decent coach who is recruiting pretty well right now. It's less than clear that there will be someone better available. WVU is a program that benefits from stability. We have certain inherent issues that must be overcome to win - and that takes a coach who understands them and knows how to overcome them. Examples: declining State population, limited in state recruiting, distance to other league teams etc. they can be overcome for sure. But it takes the right coach. I think Dana has figured that all out. But the question is whether he can take wvu to the next level- conf championship. I don't know the answer. But as of the last 3 seasons he's been heading upward not downward.
You say that we played the 26th toughest schedule in the country last year but Oklahoma and Oklahoma state were the 2 teams responsible for that and we didn't beat one of them so that argument is weak in itself.
 
WVU took care of business 10 times last year. Only done that like 6 times in it's 100+ year football history...

So, Mr. Complainer, since you have all the answers, who we gonna hire? Which coach will be available that's a sure thing to: make this program better than it is; who will understand how to recruit to WVU; who has the connections to ass't coaches who have the recruiting inroads to where we recruit and can coach; who won't have to put us through a rebuilding period; and, who won't lose the recruits we have lined up?
C'mon, if you're gonna incessantly complain, why don't you call up AD Lyons and set up a meeting to give him your wonderful solution.

Wrong we won ten games and not one against a ranked team. We haven't won a game against a ranked team in almost 3 years. How can you say that oregon an pitt have gone backwards with their coaching changes? narduzzi beat 2 top ten teams last season. Oregon has a new coach that has only coached 1 game the last guy they had got his job because chip kelly left for the nfl. Texas's new coach has only coached 1 game but the results after 1 game aren't any different than his predcessor. Dana hasn't figured anything out he only figures out new ways to lose games. If the guy was the right guy for the job he would'nt be losing to programs with 2nd year coachs that rely on turning 3 star players into 5 star players. Wvu has put more players in the Nfl than any other school in the big 12 except oklahoma since we have been Big 12 members but never finished higher than 3rd. This year will be the same old story lose the important games and win the games against the weak teams. Winning games against ranked opponents is what defines a program not beating average teams.
 
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We will never compete for a natty with this guy. Several coachs have already proven that wvu can win 7 games in a season. The offense was ineffiecient tonight like it always has been. We just got beat by a team with a 2nd year coach that rely's on turning 3 star players into 5 star players like we do. The guy hasn't beaten a ranked team since 2014. If this guy was special the program would be further along than it is now in year 7.
592 yards is inefficient? I am thinking if we had better special teams play and if gibby's defense didn't make a freshman look like an all American that may have been the difference.
 
Once Again Holgorsen chokes in a Big game but its not surprising since he hasn't won a big game since 2014. Fuente is in his 2nd year at Va tech and he was able to out coach this clown. Holgorsen probably picked this choker trait up when he coached under Sumlin at houston that bum blew a 44-10 lead tonight. Don't Worry Pitt had allot of empty seats in their stadium this weekend. I know that somehow this solves everything.

Dana is not a HC. He is a glorified OC with low emotional intelligence.
 
Once Again Holgorsen chokes in a Big game but its not surprising since he hasn't won a big game since 2014. Fuente is in his 2nd year at Va tech and he was able to out coach this clown. Holgorsen probably picked this choker trait up when he coached under Sumlin at houston that bum blew a 44-10 lead tonight. Don't Worry Pitt had allot of empty seats in their stadium this weekend. I know that somehow this solves everything.
Wrong. We won 10 games. Fact
We were a 10 win team. Fact.
We played the 26th toughest schedule in nation. Fact.
The team's won loss record has improved each year since 2013. Fact.
You don't get rid of a coach with those facts. Let's see what happens with the rest of this season.
For each of those examples of teams switching coaches you gave, there are twice as many examples of teams switching and going backward. E.g., Nebraska, Oregon, Pitt, UCLA, Texas, LSU. The list goes on and on.
Dana is a decent coach who is recruiting pretty well right now. It's less than clear that there will be someone better available. WVU is a program that benefits from stability. We have certain inherent issues that must be overcome to win - and that takes a coach who understands them and knows how to overcome them. Examples: declining State population, limited in state recruiting, distance to other league teams etc. they can be overcome for sure. But it takes the right coach. I think Dana has figured that all out. But the question is whether he can take wvu to the next level- conf championship. I don't know the answer. But as of the last 3 seasons he's been heading upward not downward.
i agree with most of your post and facts. The only thing I will point out is your reference to it being less than clear if someone better would be available, 99.9% of WVU fans never heard of Dana Holgorson before he was announced by Oliver Luck. There is ALWAYS someone ready to be the next coach.
 
Everyone on here supports the team. Holgorsen makes 3.5 million a year to produce results. The guy just lost to team with a 2nd year coach. He has been here 7 years. When is he going start winning big games? Maybe you should start questioning the status quo from time to time instead spewing the better luck next time BS.
All coaches on this level make millions a year to produce results. Every game has a both a winner and a loser. ColoradoKoolAidBoy, get over yourself. Warez
 
We will never compete for a natty with this guy. Several coachs have already proven that wvu can win 7 games in a season. The offense was ineffiecient tonight like it always has been. We just got beat by a team with a 2nd year coach that rely's on turning 3 star players into 5 star players like we do. The guy hasn't beaten a ranked team since 2014. If this guy was special the program would be further along than it is now in year 7.

I think your frustration is deluding rational thought, though I don't disagree with everything you said. First, I hardly think WVU rolling up almost 600 yards was inefficient and we scored enough points to win that game.

The problem I see with DH is a lack of discipline, which can and does carry over to the players at times. Last night I saw DB's numerous times playing the receiver and not the ball, which led to several pass interference calls. The bomb on 3rd & 5, which has been his trademark his entire tenure here. I think we got the first down after that play but that's not the point. He doesn't play to move the sticks or someone just isn't recognizing that the defense needs a breather, especially a young or rebuilt one.

We played a lot of young guys last night and the tackling went, I thought, from great in the first half to looking poor in the 2nd. This mad bomber stuff and constant one or no back backfield gets old after a while and it doesn't appear it's going to change with Spavital calling plays. I thought the O-line did a nice job and with a loaded backfield and an experienced senior fullback, who is never used properly, I wonder what they could have done in a few power-I sets, and play action off of that? It's a shame we can't be more flexible than this.

DH's own lack of discipline in not controlling his emotions on the sidelines. That penalty he got, from the way he described it was a different reason than Fuentes received. He mouthed off and got, according to DH. The players don't need that crap during a game. That's for practices, teaching, criticizing and yelling if you want but doing ballistic during a game is counter productive I feel.

The thing about DH is his choice in hiring coaches to serve with him. I'm not sold on Gibson. The example of lack of discipline with that secondary and an experienced Henry making the wrong choices last night leaving the middle open for that QB to run wild. Not all on him but where are the adjustments? Also, guys wide open, especially in the second half. Does Gibson have trouble making adjustments?

Another example was the Miami game last year. The Canes couldn't walk and chew gum for 7 straight three and outs then one guy gets open, makes a move and scores a TD and Gibson goes into a shell.
He even said, via an announcer at halftime, that he told the guy he "panicked" after that by backing the defense off of what was working and WVU subsequently got carved up. It should never have happened like that. That was coaching if you ask me. WVU won 10 games last year for a reason then looks silly against an 8-4 team because of the consequences of one play?

What we have is a head coach who wasn't one before this and a def coord who never was one either. That's too much inexperience if you ask me, that along with some of the coaches early in his tenure hurt the program as well.

It is time for DH to act like he's not on the job training anymore and if Gibson can't make the adjustments and we continue to lose certain games in a certain way-a pattern-then cut the chord and make hard choices.

This year could go a long way in telling us what direction the program is going to go and DH's direction as well. We don't have to win 10 games but if we can't win 9, with or without a bowl win then it's something to take a serious look at what we're doing when his contract expires.
 
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The smart answer is no it's not inefficient.
24 points should have been good enough if the D and ST's would have done their part.

And just what would WVU's record be if 24 points was the offensive point total each game? Yea...not good. lol. It isn't flag football.
 
Please super brains tell us the coach that would come here and win a game or Big 12 title?

There isn't one that would stay here over years.
 
Please super brains tell us the coach that would come here and win a game or Big 12 title?

There isn't one that would stay here over years.

You wrong for that! Allz you have to do is throw money at a coach. Believe me, they will stay and stay and stay...........until they finally wear out their welcome. Holgs ain't worn out his welcome yet and you can take this to the bank. Warez
 
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All coaches on this level make millions a year to produce results. Every game has a both a winner and a loser. ColoradoKoolAidBoy, get over yourself. Warez
So this is what you call yourself now? Take this low budget act somewhere else. You add absolutely nothing to the conversation. The acceptance of mediocrity is a path to eventual failure.
 
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