I believe 5-6 years is needed for a program to transition to a Power 5 Conference. Dana has fortified an under-sized roster, increased quality depth to allow us to be competitive, even as injuries take their toll in a physically-demanding conference. Four years ago, I predicted total season wins to be 4,7,8, and 9. I was on-target on the first three years--9 wins is what I forecasted for the 2016-2017 season which could be realistic with a 4-0 start. Dana is right where he should be in my opinion as far as his performance is concerned. If we need to re-evaluate someone, it should be our AD, Shane Lyons, who has put our coaching staff in a tenuous position by virtue of lukewarm support for a coach, in Dana Holgerson, who has performed admirably. In the process, we have lost a couple Assistant coaches and a few prospective recruits. Dana is going to have a great year and then he will bid Lyons farewell. He has made WVU's football program stronger and more competitive. We have beaten every team in the B12 with the exception of Oklahoma. And no one puts more WRs, in particular, in the NFL--a plus when it comes to attracting talented recruits. Dana has been loyal to his team and to WVU. We owe him a good measure of support and respect. Those who lack the "big picture" fail to realize how valuable Coach Dana Holgerson has been.
Holgerson: Lucky to Have Him.
- Thread starter TheWVUMountaineer
- Start date
You should be praising Lyons He has successfully fought off every AD that has come to try and poach Dana out of Wvu.
There are some very miserable people on this board. Salty when we win, bitches when we lose. I tell ya, if a "man" acts that way I bet they sit to piss.
I understand your position and opinion, and I would rather have a well performing DH and coaching staff with long-term outlook. However, TCU made the same transition as WVU and their team and staff has outperformed WVU over the same period. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe TCU was in the Mountain West and planning to transition to the Big East when the whole thing collapsed, triggering the domino effect for TCU and WVU coming to the Big 12.
TCU in the MW was playing similar type teams to WVU in the old BE; other than Boise State I don't think there was really another power house team in the conference. Utah had already left for the PAC12 when TCU left (look how they have made the transition to P5 football), and the other members were pretty low end.
So I think the hypothesis of 5-6 years to make a transition to the Big 12/P5 conference doesn't hold water as there are two prime examples during the same time period who have outperformed WVU and DH.
My gripe with DH is poor play calling (prime example is last years' KSU game), poor game management and preparation (PinStripe Bowl a prime example), inability to recruit a QB (all the successful QBs have been transfers) and his lack of effort (seemingly) to embrace the fan base. His aloofness makes a bad impression and rubs many fans the wrong way, me included. Recruiting issues may stem from this as well but I really don't know, only guessing.
So I hope he does well because I hope the TEAM does well. For him personally I don't really care as he has not inured himself to me as a coach I want to make a long-term investment in for my Alma Mater.
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Lyons was really in a no win situation with all the coaches and their contracts when he took the job. In reality, if the situation would have been different here, Rob Mullens might have come home to be the AD.
While I think Lyons isn't very personable he is in a tough spot with Gee and Dana. Gee likes to call the shots an be the President and AD and Dana has a problem with the donors.
Shane hasn't dealt with the Dana thing correctly because he went to Dana and wanted to do a small extend while lowering all of Dana's leverage and any fool could see it was to give WVU a better option if wanting to fire Dana. So, he's doing his job as far as trying to protect WVU but in doing so he probably soured the hell out of his relationship with Dana, if in fact he even had one at all.
While I think Lyons isn't very personable he is in a tough spot with Gee and Dana. Gee likes to call the shots an be the President and AD and Dana has a problem with the donors.
Shane hasn't dealt with the Dana thing correctly because he went to Dana and wanted to do a small extend while lowering all of Dana's leverage and any fool could see it was to give WVU a better option if wanting to fire Dana. So, he's doing his job as far as trying to protect WVU but in doing so he probably soured the hell out of his relationship with Dana, if in fact he even had one at all.
I like Dana.
I'm sure it is possible for us to have a better coach.
And I am absolutely certain we could easily do a lot worse than Dana Holgorsen.
The problem is that we have too many fans who derive their sense of self-worth from the success of the football team. When the team is not doing so well, or it appears that it won't do so well, it's like it is a personal assault on their sense of well-being and they go on the attack by demanding a new coach. But all they really want is convince themselves of their own self-worth.
It's like they say, "I demand that the team I support is very successful because if it isn't successful I don't know what I'll do with myself! I can't be joyful if my team isn't winning!"
The way they act betrays the motives of their hearts.
I'm sure it is possible for us to have a better coach.
And I am absolutely certain we could easily do a lot worse than Dana Holgorsen.
The problem is that we have too many fans who derive their sense of self-worth from the success of the football team. When the team is not doing so well, or it appears that it won't do so well, it's like it is a personal assault on their sense of well-being and they go on the attack by demanding a new coach. But all they really want is convince themselves of their own self-worth.
It's like they say, "I demand that the team I support is very successful because if it isn't successful I don't know what I'll do with myself! I can't be joyful if my team isn't winning!"
The way they act betrays the motives of their hearts.
ex-Pat ... I usually like a lot of things you say. But I believe that comparing TCU and WVU is like comparing apples and oranges.
TCU already had a significant history with some of the B12 schools because of its Southwest Conference days.
TCU is also smack dab in the middle of the prime B12 recruiting area.
TCU has been able amp up its recruiting in this territory because of its return to a regional conference AND because Texas has been down for the last several years.
TCU has a fan base that is thrilled to be in the B12 because it is basically like coming home.
WVU had none of those advantages.
To some extent we all feel that way, but you are correct when you say some feel they are "entitled" to either have a successful team or imply some kind of control over the situation. That to me is kind of crazy!
I can bitch and moan with the best of them but I want to have at a minimum a outward appearance of a team that is respected both nationally and within the conference. Right now we are a tick above ISU or KU in that regard and deservedly so; we haven't performed to a higher standard since arriving in the B12.
I don't "demand" anything other than having my team perform to its fullest potential on game day. And sometimes that's not happening.
I understand some of the aspects regarding recruiting and the geographic compatibility of TCU to the Big 12. TCU and perhaps Utah are the closest comparisons you might get from similar situations in comparison to WVU. The only other possibility is Louisville, since they both came from the old BE, and look how that has turned out. Petrino only improved on what Strong started before going to Texas and they are now excelling in the ACC. WVU is still looking for that breakout year whereas these examples have already had theirs in a shorter period of time. Maybe this WILL be our year.
I don't know if any of you heard it, but Dana took a nice shot at Lyons in the post game presser with Shane in the room. Holgs has got some big ones.
Great post! We are a very emotional fan base; this gets in the way of proper thinking from time to time.
TCU was on a roll when they entered the B12 and I think they've hit their peak. They do have a very good coach and WVU does face a disadvantage being on an island.
That said, WVU was on a nice roll too entering the B12, but this wasn't a team built for the B12. We had some key players but as we've seen, sustaining a season requires depth at almost all positions and a roster filled with the right kind of players - DB's, ect.
I think Dana has done a good job of building a quality team that has equal talent than most of our B12 conference mates.
However, WVU was in a Power Conference before the B12. It was the weakest one, but the Big East was a BCS Conference. We didn't come from CUSA.
That said, WVU was on a nice roll too entering the B12, but this wasn't a team built for the B12. We had some key players but as we've seen, sustaining a season requires depth at almost all positions and a roster filled with the right kind of players - DB's, ect.
I think Dana has done a good job of building a quality team that has equal talent than most of our B12 conference mates.
However, WVU was in a Power Conference before the B12. It was the weakest one, but the Big East was a BCS Conference. We didn't come from CUSA.
We need to stop with the "come home" bullshit and just hire the best man for the job. Period.
Agree, but hard to deny Mullens didn't check all the boxes.
I think Babcock was a real good candidate but timing was off. At least with him you know you're getting a guy who knows how to hire a coach.
If he's winning. I think we see some "shrinkage" if we lose 3 in a row. Comments like that can come back to haunt you.
I heard it and casting it as a "shot" at Lyons is your choice. It did not strike me that way at all.
If Holgorsen is anything he is forthright when it comes to talking about his team and the games. Publicly acknowledging that the AD, who could be getting flack from some boosters, would be happy about finally beating TCU is just his way of acknowledging the state of things.
In short, their coach had done more and for longer by 2012.Dana was (and still is to some degree) learning on the job. TCU also had better players on both lines, which is imperative when you step up in play.
Dana looked at the media and said I wasnt obsessing over Kansas St, y'all might hae been, I know Shane was, we weren't.
It was a shot for sure and to be honest it was a prick move. It doesn't serve him or WVU well at all.
It shows a lack of respect for his direct boss. Now, whether of not it is warranted, thats another question entirely. Still shouldn't have said anything like that. Makes you wonder if it was retribution for Lyon's going to the press last winter?
It was a shot for sure and to be honest it was a prick move. It doesn't serve him or WVU well at all.
It shows a lack of respect for his direct boss. Now, whether of not it is warranted, thats another question entirely. Still shouldn't have said anything like that. Makes you wonder if it was retribution for Lyon's going to the press last winter?
It may have been a shot. If it was retribution, good for him. If he was seeking retribution, then there's a good chance he was wronged....right?
Maybe you feel everyone should kiss the ring worn on Sir Lyons' finger, but perhaps Mr. Holgorsen is his own man, making decisions freely, without fear of an overlord.
Isn't there a slogan about West Virginian's being free?
Sorry Dana isn't a sheep.
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Mountaineers are always free....
Sounds like Dana is a better example of the WV spirit than some of the natives.
Sounds like Dana is a better example of the WV spirit than some of the natives.
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I agree WVinUSAF
I didn't think it was a "dig" at Lyons. To me and in context of the situation it was pointed at "media types." Who need stories like "Can Holgrosen Overcome the KSU Curse." (not a real article just a example)
Holgrosen really needs to have a great run this season in conference play. Too many 4-5s conference records. The Mountaineers are off to a very good start sitting at 4 - 0.
[WVU]
Here is how it was reported on WVMetronews.
Even though the drought versus K-State has been a pain in his backside, not to mention a threat to his future employment, Holgorsen denied taking special satisfaction.
“I haven’t obsessed over that,” he said. “I know you guys (media members) probably have, Shane probably has.”
Just then the coach glanced across at athletics director Shane Lyons, the boss who’s using 2016 to determine who heads the program through 2017 and beyond. The current evaluation shows WVU at 9-1 since last November, matching the best 10-game span of Holgorsen’s tenure.
“We’re in a good place right now. Recruiting’s going good,” he said. “We’ve had some guys here who are pretty fired up about being here.”
http://wvmetronews.com/2016/10/01/watch-holgorsen-calls-wvu-comeback-a-heck-of-a-feeling/
I'm sure there are some among us who absolutely need to call this taking a shot at Lyons because they live for gossip and drama .... you know .... they're like little old ladies who gossip .... "Did you hear what he said?" " Oh my goodness .... I couldn't believe he said that!" Blah, blah, blah ......
In my book MikeRafone gets this week's Rivals Little Old Lady Award.
Even though the drought versus K-State has been a pain in his backside, not to mention a threat to his future employment, Holgorsen denied taking special satisfaction.
“I haven’t obsessed over that,” he said. “I know you guys (media members) probably have, Shane probably has.”
Just then the coach glanced across at athletics director Shane Lyons, the boss who’s using 2016 to determine who heads the program through 2017 and beyond. The current evaluation shows WVU at 9-1 since last November, matching the best 10-game span of Holgorsen’s tenure.
“We’re in a good place right now. Recruiting’s going good,” he said. “We’ve had some guys here who are pretty fired up about being here.”
http://wvmetronews.com/2016/10/01/watch-holgorsen-calls-wvu-comeback-a-heck-of-a-feeling/
I'm sure there are some among us who absolutely need to call this taking a shot at Lyons because they live for gossip and drama .... you know .... they're like little old ladies who gossip .... "Did you hear what he said?" " Oh my goodness .... I couldn't believe he said that!" Blah, blah, blah ......
In my book MikeRafone gets this week's Rivals Little Old Lady Award.
I am delighted that my alma mater is 4-0.
But WVU was 5-0 with the best offense trio in history -- Tavon, Geno and Stedman -- and finished 7-6. So I'll wait and hope this continues.
Saturday's Kansas State game was the most thrilling in 20 years for me to watch in Mountaineer Field. So was the crowd. 61,700, which is 1,500 over seating capacity.
We are a LONG way from proving that Dana can do better than his 4-5 4-year average in the Big 12. I hope he goes 9-0 this season. NO ONE will be happier than me if he does.
But let's look at the record:
WVU’s road ahead:
Texas Tech #38
TCU #34
Oklahoma State #33
Kansas
Texas #42
Oklahoma #20 & #22
Iowa State
Baylor #11 & #13
That's two games that definitely should be won. But there also are six games against teams that are not chopped liver. Premature ejaculation over the 4-0 start which, again, I am delighted to see.
The best thing about the Kansas State game is that WVU never quit, even down by 13 going into the 4th quarter. But against BYU and Kansas State, WVU showed that it still needs improvement -- kicking game in particular, consistency on offense and, to a lesser degree with Gibby running the show, on defense.
I will enjoy the victories and anguish over the defeats. My alma mater is #20 (the coaches), so I'm happy. But I'm also wary.
M anhandled Missouri, 26-11
O rdinary against Youngstown, 38-21
U nnerving miracle goalline tip/interception escapes BYU, 35-32
N o quit against Kansas State, 17-16
T rample Texas Tech
A nnihilate TCU
I mpale Oklahoma State
N ail Kansas
E radicate Texas
E rectile dysfunction Oklahoma
R oll over Iowa State
S uffocate Baylor
But WVU was 5-0 with the best offense trio in history -- Tavon, Geno and Stedman -- and finished 7-6. So I'll wait and hope this continues.
Saturday's Kansas State game was the most thrilling in 20 years for me to watch in Mountaineer Field. So was the crowd. 61,700, which is 1,500 over seating capacity.
We are a LONG way from proving that Dana can do better than his 4-5 4-year average in the Big 12. I hope he goes 9-0 this season. NO ONE will be happier than me if he does.
But let's look at the record:
WVU’s road ahead:
Texas Tech #38
TCU #34
Oklahoma State #33
Kansas
Texas #42
Oklahoma #20 & #22
Iowa State
Baylor #11 & #13
That's two games that definitely should be won. But there also are six games against teams that are not chopped liver. Premature ejaculation over the 4-0 start which, again, I am delighted to see.
The best thing about the Kansas State game is that WVU never quit, even down by 13 going into the 4th quarter. But against BYU and Kansas State, WVU showed that it still needs improvement -- kicking game in particular, consistency on offense and, to a lesser degree with Gibby running the show, on defense.
I will enjoy the victories and anguish over the defeats. My alma mater is #20 (the coaches), so I'm happy. But I'm also wary.
M anhandled Missouri, 26-11
O rdinary against Youngstown, 38-21
U nnerving miracle goalline tip/interception escapes BYU, 35-32
N o quit against Kansas State, 17-16
T rample Texas Tech
A nnihilate TCU
I mpale Oklahoma State
N ail Kansas
E radicate Texas
E rectile dysfunction Oklahoma
R oll over Iowa State
S uffocate Baylor
Premature ejaculation .... can you say that on a chat board?
Think about how many posters could be offended by that comment!
This chat board should be a safe place where no one is made to feel uncomfortable over their sexual performance.
The hate speech must stop!
Think about how many posters could be offended by that comment!
This chat board should be a safe place where no one is made to feel uncomfortable over their sexual performance.
The hate speech must stop!
I thought the bigger shot was when asked if wins like this gives him a "bump"? The reply with a smirk was, "Well, we'll see at the end of the year." (Glances around the room).
That had to be a shot at Lyons and more so than the afore mentioned comment.
How can giving a simple and honest answer be a "shot" at Lyons?
They asked him and he responded.
You could just as easily have said that the press took a shot at Lyons by asking the question. All of this "shot" stuff is in the eye of the beholder.
You should be more concerned about CFE's hate speech toward the sexually impaired.
I think Holgorsen has grown into the job. It's a mistake to equate TCU to WVU. TCU had a HC and staff which had been in place for quite some time. TCU was a very hot program is an incredibly fertile recruiting ground. But I agree on several of the other points you make.
CFE seems like a great guy. Loyal Mountaineer, sports knowledge, etc. But he seems to have a preoccupation with certain sexual aspects. He always works "Erectile Dysfunction" into his football season word game year after year.
At his age and as active as he is I would bet there are a bunch of ladies who would seek his company, if you know what I mean.
Great post and analysis. We are ranked in both polls and 9-1 in the last 10 games. Coach Holgs is developing NFL quality players in numbers not seen before he arrived, the team is playing hard for Holgs and his decision to promote Gibson, while shocking to many, has provided outstanding results. He is a top tier offensive coordinator and has tremendous offensive talent at all positions returning next year. The program is trending upward. Shane Lyons has allowed chaos to reign over the program.
Truly funny. Believe Lyons would joyously volunteer to pay the travel expenses for Dana to go for an interview were another team's AD to show real interest (maybe even spring for this with funds from his own pocket).
Let's talk some more about Holgorsen taking "shots."
Was he talking a shot at Gibby when, after the BYU game, he said, "Not good" when asked about the run defense?
Did he take a shot at Josh Lambert after Saturday's game when he offered a less than positive commentary on Lambert?
Has he taken shots at Rushel Shell in past seasons when he Rus needs to hit the hole faster?
Does Holgorsen take "shots" at players, coaches, and his athletic director?
Or does he just tend to speak forthrightly about situations?
PS: Paper .... feel free to kiss yourself in the mirror.
Was he talking a shot at Gibby when, after the BYU game, he said, "Not good" when asked about the run defense?
Did he take a shot at Josh Lambert after Saturday's game when he offered a less than positive commentary on Lambert?
Has he taken shots at Rushel Shell in past seasons when he Rus needs to hit the hole faster?
Does Holgorsen take "shots" at players, coaches, and his athletic director?
Or does he just tend to speak forthrightly about situations?
PS: Paper .... feel free to kiss yourself in the mirror.
There's a difference between taking shots at people you are the boss of as opposed to people that are supposed to be the boss over you. Especially in a televised press conference.
