Has The Big 12 Become The Big East 2.0....
- Thread starter Orlaco
- Start date
with Nebraska, Colorado, Texas A&M, and Missouri leaving....you've asked a question when you already know the answer....if Texas or Oklahoma leave...stick a fork in it..it's done.
Actually, I think in the long run, other conferences (Acc, big 10, sec, pac 12) will try to find ways to shed schools to get back to 10. Vandy, Northwestern, Wake Forest, for starters bring very little to their respective conferences. And 10 is obviously the best option in every way except for these conference championships, which are often poorly attendedI Because they can't be planned for in advance. Special games like the Kickoff classic make more sense to me.
So I think the Big 12 has it right.
Lgm!
So I think the Big 12 has it right.
Lgm!
Dream on - the television networks will not let that happen. One thing you have to remember is that no conference with 10 members ever played a round robin until the Big 12 did it. The SEC at one time only played 6 conference games, the Big 10 and P12 played 7 and then moved to 8 before they expanded.
The Big 12 is a great conference in football and basketball and baseball. I think WVU needs to win a championship before we even think about comparing it to our old conference.
Any conference would be hurt by the two highest profile programs leaving. Imagine the B10 without Michigan & Ohio State, the PAC12 without USC & Oregon, and the ACC without Florida State & Clemson.
Texas & Oklahoma have the best setup conference wise in the entire country and they are never going to leave. Ridiculous to even discuss it.
Any conference would be hurt by the two highest profile programs leaving. Imagine the B10 without Michigan & Ohio State, the PAC12 without USC & Oregon, and the ACC without Florida State & Clemson.
Texas & Oklahoma have the best setup conference wise in the entire country and they are never going to leave. Ridiculous to even discuss it.
I think Oklahoma and Texas would be crazy to leave but there will be attempts made. And I agree with Boren that the conference needs to be at 12. And for me one of those teams has to be close - namely Cincy. I do not care who the other one is. BYU or Colorado State or Memphis of Houston. UCF is not among the teams I would be looking at.
The Big 12 Conference is likely to stay at 10 for another decade IMO. I think that Boren is around 74 years old so his time as OU's President isn't going to last much longer.
It is ridiculous to talk about Texas and/or Oklahoma leaving the Big 12. It is completely idiotic to attempt to make a comparison between the Big 12 and the Big East.
I agree with this completely, particularly now that the B12 can have a conference championship game if it wants too. 10 is ideal for round robin scheduling and splitting up the money.
And 10 is totally STUPID for a championship game if you continue the round robin schedule. And any one can use a calculator to divide by 12 - and moving to 12 would cost each school very little money - and actually it would not be noticed as they would come in with partial shares to begin with.
The Big12 is the most unstable conference. The big east was the same way.
The big 12 has poor leadership just like the Big east did. They are not proactive, they are reactionary. Texas has run off nebraska, Colorado, Missouri and Texas A&M. When your schools leave and/or plucked up by other conferences, you are weak.
The big 12 has poor leadership just like the Big east did. They are not proactive, they are reactionary. Texas has run off nebraska, Colorado, Missouri and Texas A&M. When your schools leave and/or plucked up by other conferences, you are weak.
Sorry, Woody, but that statement is incorrect. The Pac-10 was the first 10-team power conference to play a full round-robin schedule.
When the NCAA approved the permanent expansion of the schedule to 12 games starting with the 2006 season, the Pac-10 decided to use the extra game to complete the full round-robin schedule instead of each school missing one of the others as they had been doing for many years. For that 5-season period from 2006-2010, the Pac-10 schools did play everybody else before the Big 12 began doing so in 2011.
Thanks for the correction - but my point was still the Big 10 and the SEC never even considered it and I dobut that they would ever consider returning to 10 teams.
The reason the Big 12 lost those schools was that Texas & Oklahoma were in talks with the PAC10 conference about joining. And it is way to early to say if anyone of those four schools made the right choice to leave. A significant number of Nebraska fans aren't happy in the Big 10 and no one seems that excited about Colorado being in the PAC12.
The Big 12 was smart enough to bring in TCU and WVU plus they secured a decade long TV contract worth billions of dollars. Big 12 schools have never been in a better financial position and the stability is sound (no one is leaving especially with the Grant of Rights Agreement).
IMO, the Big 10 and SEC would both like to expand into the Virginia/North Carolina area and that is where the next expansion battles will take place well into the future when the current ACC contracts expire. (10+ years).
Maybe but if we make the right choices we can make the Big 12 a much better conference than the Big East was. The question remains will we make the right decisions.
For the people hanging their hats on the GOR,
It's just another contract (bylaw really) clause. Sure, it makes leaving a conference a bit more tricky (expensive)....more so for the more popular schools (in the case of the Big 12 that would be Texas).
A school can simply break the contract.....it's not like they still couldn't grant the rights to another conference and refuse to share them with The Big 12. A school that does this would just have to pay damages and there is only damages if the Big 12 makes less TV money.
With all the schools that recently left the Big 12 it's making more money THAN EVER. Good luck convincing a court WVU leaving the Big 12 and adding another school (and they would add AT LEAST one to get back to ten) while still making the same money (again....networks didn't penalize the Big 12 when teams left) was actually 'damage'.
At least in the case of the Big 12 the 'buyout' bylaw is still the biggest obstacle for a team that wants to leave....basically they state a team must pay the equivalent of two years of income (from conference contracts). That 'base' would be pushing 50 million before factoring in other income....
It's just another contract (bylaw really) clause. Sure, it makes leaving a conference a bit more tricky (expensive)....more so for the more popular schools (in the case of the Big 12 that would be Texas).
A school can simply break the contract.....it's not like they still couldn't grant the rights to another conference and refuse to share them with The Big 12. A school that does this would just have to pay damages and there is only damages if the Big 12 makes less TV money.
With all the schools that recently left the Big 12 it's making more money THAN EVER. Good luck convincing a court WVU leaving the Big 12 and adding another school (and they would add AT LEAST one to get back to ten) while still making the same money (again....networks didn't penalize the Big 12 when teams left) was actually 'damage'.
At least in the case of the Big 12 the 'buyout' bylaw is still the biggest obstacle for a team that wants to leave....basically they state a team must pay the equivalent of two years of income (from conference contracts). That 'base' would be pushing 50 million before factoring in other income....
Your post implies that everyone else is a 'shit' too (in a cesspool that V allows you to make posts). So I can only assume that you consider yourself a 'little shit'....and that you respect my leadership abilities and/or posting prowess.
I'm not going to argue either of your points.....I'd rather just thank you.
If I had to make a prediction, I'd predict conference realignment is not over & the epicenter of the next shift will be in the Big XII. Just not sure if it'll mean adding members to present state, losing Okla & Texas, or adding members to save the league once OU & UT are gone.
I do believe in any outlayed scenario WVU will wind up okay & find its home.
Somehow there's sort of this feeling that eventually - maybe in a long time even - WVU will be back playing eastern schools. I hate how the ACC destroyed the Big East. Things were pefectly fine in the Big East before that & it's my preference to play Pitt, Va Tech, Miami, Syracuse, Boston College & the like. I also was loving the budding rivalry with Louisville, and recognized good, challenging games with Cincy & even South Fla.
All of this conference talk notwithstanding that Big East basketball was 2nd to none & will not be duplicated. For now we can't live in the past, but maybe down the road history will repeat.
I do believe in any outlayed scenario WVU will wind up okay & find its home.
Somehow there's sort of this feeling that eventually - maybe in a long time even - WVU will be back playing eastern schools. I hate how the ACC destroyed the Big East. Things were pefectly fine in the Big East before that & it's my preference to play Pitt, Va Tech, Miami, Syracuse, Boston College & the like. I also was loving the budding rivalry with Louisville, and recognized good, challenging games with Cincy & even South Fla.
All of this conference talk notwithstanding that Big East basketball was 2nd to none & will not be duplicated. For now we can't live in the past, but maybe down the road history will repeat.
Sorry, Woody, but this is a rare time when I disagree with you. Moving to 12 would cost the current schools a ton of money.
10 schools divide $300 million for $30 million apiece. The pot would have to swell to $360 million for the current 10 members to get the SAME piece of the $$$ piece.
Anything less than $360 million means the current 10 members LOSE money. That's what my calculators says.
I disagree in a spirit of fellowship with you because I value your opinions. But these numbers don't lie.
And I don't see 2 teams that are not named Notre Dame and BYU that would jack up the total past $360 million so the current members don't lose money by adding members.
By the way (and I didn't come up with this but I can't credit the source, V, on this board), in SEVENTY YEARS since 1936 there was only ONE year when there were NO conference changes so the chances of things staying as they are historically don't look good.
WVU may have to find another life raft to swim for if Oklahoma and Texas go elsewhere.
I still think the idea setup would be FOUR 16-team Power conferences, with the EIGHT division champs playing for the national title. Perfect!
And then Notre Dame and BYU would be forced to come aboard (I don't count ND's ACC "membership" as a real deal) or be on the outside looking in.
You math is correct CFE if both new members are brought in at a full share but that will not happen. But the money goes up each year and if we increase the value from 300M to 340M in year one but only play half shares then 30 mil becomes 30.9 mil. and as the the values go up each year along with the percentage share for the new members - over all payout would remain close to constant. I want a to be in a stable conference that has a conference championship games and divisions. I certainly do not believe that a conference championship game in a 10 member conference is a situation that I want to deal with.
I do value you opinions however I do not see the perfect situation of 4 16 team conferences ever happening - first of all that would mean that two teams get left out if you include BYU and ND.
I have looked at the performance schedule of the Pride of WV and after 4 years they will have traveled to exactly ONE conference road game. Which will also be the total number of conference road games that I will have attended also. And I would say that after 4 years ZERO Big 12 road bands have performed on Mountaineer Field. We are losing some of the pagentry of college football. I think we will see a lower amount of WVU fans traveling to conference road games. In many ways we are being left out of some of the things that I value about college football - but at least we are still in one of the Big Boy Conferences.
I do value you opinions however I do not see the perfect situation of 4 16 team conferences ever happening - first of all that would mean that two teams get left out if you include BYU and ND.
I have looked at the performance schedule of the Pride of WV and after 4 years they will have traveled to exactly ONE conference road game. Which will also be the total number of conference road games that I will have attended also. And I would say that after 4 years ZERO Big 12 road bands have performed on Mountaineer Field. We are losing some of the pagentry of college football. I think we will see a lower amount of WVU fans traveling to conference road games. In many ways we are being left out of some of the things that I value about college football - but at least we are still in one of the Big Boy Conferences.
Woody, I can't dispute your assertion that WVU fans have lost something valuable in not being able to go to road games in the Big 12. I haven't either and I went to Colorado, LSU, Auburn and South Florida road games when WVU was in the Big East, so it's not like I never went.
But, with Texas or Oklahoma coming to Mountaineer Field every year, I no longer feel the need to go to road games. The 4 or 5 Big 12 games bring in teams that we used to salivate over if we got to play them once in a decade. Now we play them every year.
So there's the good and bad of it.
As for the four 16-team conferences, it seems a logical evolving. After all, for SEVENTY YEARS college football had ONE year with NO changes in conference membership. So all this switching isn't new, despite all the money TV is throwing around.
We're both on the same page with this one: We want WVU to be in a viable situation in college football, regardless of which conference it is. Hell, I'd even put up with Notre Dame again if it means the Irish are in with both feet, not these Big East and ACC half-assed deals, if it would help WVU be strong in football.
Now, Woody, how about getting someone to coach WVU to a national title before I die? Since I'll be 83 in November, you better speed it up or I'll have to celebrate from my grave, if it ever happens.
Is that necessarily all bad, though, Woody? I don't think it is.
The increased number of very distant road games by its nature ought to result in a greater urgency to attend games at home, shouldn't it?
In my view, one thing that has been holding us back from the big-boy programs for many years is the frequent non-sellouts in Morgantown. For example, look at the national-perception boost Penn St and VT always get from the packed crowds even in their down years.
If properly marketed, there is no reason Big 12 membership can't have a positive effect on home attendance rather than being viewed strictly through the lens of decreased road attendance.
Current Big 12 members who won a national championship in football since 2000: Oklahoma, Texas Current Big East members who have won a championship since 2000: nobody .....you tell me
I see that as flawed logic - as most people that attend away games already attend home games.
And as WV's population get older and older the attendance will decline in Morgantown. Almost all the BIG Boys in college have much larger populations to draw from.
In 1988 I attended all 12 games.
Obvious & fundamental as it is, people buy tix & support a winner. Sell outs are common vs rivals & high profile, ranked opponents in or out of conference.
Whole revenue sharing thing, to me, at some point enough revenue is enough. These colleges are supposed to be academic institutions, but the modern trend is so heavily concerned with business, profits, appearing on TV and making millions.
WVU is making more than ever, but before, it seemed to operate okay to me. I get the school & athletic dept has to keep up with the Jonses to stay competitive and relevant, but as former alum & fan, I really won't be too concerned if they expanded & made a few million less.
Whole revenue sharing thing, to me, at some point enough revenue is enough. These colleges are supposed to be academic institutions, but the modern trend is so heavily concerned with business, profits, appearing on TV and making millions.
WVU is making more than ever, but before, it seemed to operate okay to me. I get the school & athletic dept has to keep up with the Jonses to stay competitive and relevant, but as former alum & fan, I really won't be too concerned if they expanded & made a few million less.
Certainly that's the case that most road attendees also attend home games.
What I meant, though, was something pressvirginia alluded to in the post after yours: Don't many people who attend home games want to see only the highest-profile opponents plus the rivalry games (if any)?
Experience tells me there are far more fans like that ("moderate users") than there are fans like Cuyahoga Falls Eer who are coming every week regardless of the opponent ("heavy users").
Our board is rife with moderate-user fans who, through finances or geography, can make only 1-4 games per season. We read their stories all the time.
In the Big East, those fans likely circled 1 or 2 big home games on the schedule and probably also looked for reasonable road games like Pitt, VT, Louisville, or Cincinnati.
Therefore, with conference road games no longer such a great option, aren't at least some of those moderate users going to make an extra trip or two to Morgantown?
Chances are everybody already has the Oklahoma/Texas game on their list each year so there isn't going to be any boost there. What I am suggesting is that, if combined with the proper marketing plan and dynamic ticket pricing, this seems like a good opportunity to funnel additional consumption by these moderate users toward the Texas Tech or Iowa St games, for example.
Not true. The contract only increases enough to keep the payout (per team) the same at it is now. If the money went up each year, as you suggest, then the payout would exceed what it is now.
The money does go up each year under the contracts. It is not a constant for the 12 year life of the contract. The payouts are going to go up to at least the mid 30's by the end of the contract. You have not been paying attention.
No, the payouts aren't going up into the mid-30s. It is true that the payouts aren't the same every year, but the problem is you aren't factoring in that the payout starts out lower. For example, the Big 12's TV contract pays out an average of $20 million per team over the life of the deal. Right now, the payout is less than $20 million. The Big 12 TV contract is $2.5 billion over 13 years. That's an average of 192 million per year, which divided 10 ways is $19.2 million, so basically $20 million to each school. So if the payouts, got up to $30 million on the back end, as you claim, then the payouts now would have to be around $10 million. In other words, no matter how you slice it, the payouts have to add up to $2.5 billion when the contract is all said and done.
It's not the same... not even close... but you raise an interesting conundrum. What if? What if you stepped into a pothole and broke your ankle? No one knows. We are safe for now. Enjoy it!
Why hasn't the ACC announced their payout for last "school" year - my guess is that it doesn't come close to the Big 12 or SEC payout. Bowlsby indicated that the conference payout could go up another $4 or $5 million next year and with WVU now receiving a full share that will likely put us over $30,000,000 (UNBELIEVABLE). The separation between us and our closest ACC neighbor Pitt is already starting to give us a big advantage - more money for facilities, players, coaches, recruiting, etc., etc. Life is the Big 12 is as good as it gets in college sports.
New Big Ten Payout Numbers Look Promising for Maryland After Leaving the ACC
http://maryland.247sports.com/Bolt/New-Big-Ten-Payout-Numbers-Look-Promising-for-Maryland-38298966
Clemson released its financial statement for this fiscal year today, and the ACC payout was $25 million.
At least this time you didn't provide bogus links to support your erroneous claims. Here is what they are saying on the FSU board:
PINEHURST, N.C. -- It didn't take long Monday for Atlantic Coast Conference Commissioner John Swofford to start his dance routine.
Shortly after his half-hour "state of the conference" address to launch ACC Kickoff, the 18-year league commissioner was peppered with questions about the status of the much-talked-about ACC cable television channel and the apparently widening financial disparities with other conferences. Swofford did his best to evade multiple inquires on the subject and even joked with one reporter by saying he must be tired of hearing him talk on the subject without saying much.
Despite numerous questions on the subject, Swofford offered no clear direction as to when a conference network could be launched.
But the potential financial shortcomings for the conference are far from a laughing matter.
. . . . . . . . . .
There was "a big commitment from the conference to this university a few years ago on that issue. I'm sure no one's forgotten," FSU Trustee Edwards Burr said during April's meeting.
Unless Swofford was going out of his way on Monday to not tip his hand, it sounds like there is no immediate plan to launch a television network, and that ever-widening financial gap between ACC and the Big Ten/SEC will continue to grow. If the financial disparity between conferences continues to play out that way, it will become increasingly difficult for FSU and other ACC athletic programs to compete on the big stage against its big brother conferences.
https://floridastate.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1784662&PT=4&PR=2
My guess the absence of numbers from reliable sources (like the commissioner) indicates that the ACC payout was far below the other power conferences.
PINEHURST, N.C. -- It didn't take long Monday for Atlantic Coast Conference Commissioner John Swofford to start his dance routine.
Shortly after his half-hour "state of the conference" address to launch ACC Kickoff, the 18-year league commissioner was peppered with questions about the status of the much-talked-about ACC cable television channel and the apparently widening financial disparities with other conferences. Swofford did his best to evade multiple inquires on the subject and even joked with one reporter by saying he must be tired of hearing him talk on the subject without saying much.
Despite numerous questions on the subject, Swofford offered no clear direction as to when a conference network could be launched.
But the potential financial shortcomings for the conference are far from a laughing matter.
. . . . . . . . . .
There was "a big commitment from the conference to this university a few years ago on that issue. I'm sure no one's forgotten," FSU Trustee Edwards Burr said during April's meeting.
Unless Swofford was going out of his way on Monday to not tip his hand, it sounds like there is no immediate plan to launch a television network, and that ever-widening financial gap between ACC and the Big Ten/SEC will continue to grow. If the financial disparity between conferences continues to play out that way, it will become increasingly difficult for FSU and other ACC athletic programs to compete on the big stage against its big brother conferences.
https://floridastate.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1784662&PT=4&PR=2
My guess the absence of numbers from reliable sources (like the commissioner) indicates that the ACC payout was far below the other power conferences.
Last edited:
At least this time you didn't provide bogus links to support your erroneous claims. Here is what they are saying on the FSU board:
PINEHURST, N.C. -- It didn't take long Monday for Atlantic Coast Conference Commissioner John Swofford to start his dance routine.
Shortly after his half-hour "state of the conference" address to launch ACC Kickoff, the 18-year league commissioner was peppered with questions about the status of the much-talked-about ACC cable television channel and the apparently widening financial disparities with other conferences. Swofford did his best to evade multiple inquires on the subject and even joked with one reporter by saying he must be tired of hearing him talk on the subject without saying much.
Despite numerous questions on the subject, Swofford offered no clear direction as to when a conference network could be launched.
But the potential financial shortcomings for the conference are far from a laughing matter.
. . . . . . . . . .
There was "a big commitment from the conference to this university a few years ago on that issue. I'm sure no one's forgotten," FSU Trustee Edwards Burr said during April's meeting.
Unless Swofford was going out of his way on Monday to not tip his hand, it sounds like there is no immediate plan to launch a television network, and that ever-widening financial gap between ACC and the Big Ten/SEC will continue to grow. If the financial disparity between conferences continues to play out that way, it will become increasingly difficult for FSU and other ACC athletic programs to compete on the big stage against its big brother conferences.
https://floridastate.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1784662&PT=4&PR=2
My guess the absence of numbers from reliable sources (like the commissioner) indicates that the ACC payout was far below the other power conferences.
Sorry, but I never provided bogus links. You just call them bogus because you don't have any way to refute the information they provide.
Again, you are also wrong. The payout from the ACC was $25 million dollars. Here is the story in today's local newspaper:
Sorry, it's not bogus. None of the other ones were bogus either. You never demonstrated why the other ones were bogus.
Yea...your quote (from a link where a subscription is required to read) does seem to sum the TOTAL PROFIT and INCOME for your school. Is that all they made....? No mention of those third tier profits that are not part of the ESPN deal...yet we always hear exist ?? Wouldn't that be the time to mention even more income ??
While their income from ticket sales is impressive.....that TOTAL from the ACC isn't... WVU, while still not getting a full payout from the Big 12 can challenge/beat it.
Sure someone knows. I'll answer your question the same way I imagine my great granddaughter might....so you're getting the perspective of a kid in fourth grade....
------------
If you step in a pothole and break your ankle then you have a broken ankle. Sucks..that's that....
Too bad that annoying pothole wasn't repaired before the real damage occurred.
Latest posts
-
-
-
WVSPORTS.COM West Virginia experimenting with Gallagher as a two-way player- Latest: WVUtotheBig12
-
-
ROLL CALL UPDATE for MEET UP Saturday, April 27th at 2:00PM at Buffalo Wild Wings...- Latest: Middletownmountaineer