Expansion

[Buckaineer]

Two years in a row and B12 was penalized for not having 13th data point. If full CCG dereg is passed, the B12 will stay at 10. If it does not pass at all the B12 will move to 12 by 2017. Not sure what will happen if dereg passes with BIG10 amendment.

Not true and they have not said this. What they've said is they are at a disadvantage and deregulation gives them options to determine what they want to do. They've said they could choose to expand and play a CCG, could choose to play a 10 team CCG, or do nothing.

Not once have they stated they will not expand if deregulation goes through--although they'll most likely not do anything right away if it passes. They'll take more time to make such decisions.

 

[Buckaineer]

The Big 12 will have to expand for tv eyeballs period. That's where the money comes from...the inventory that the leagues can provide. It is almost funny too hear the self embracing chatter about teams not being worthy etc. Get real. Twelve teams. Two divisions. A CCG. More inventory for the network. A cable/streaming network of its own. Two more teams in the Eastern half of the US to draw eyeballs. A couple more teams for bowls. This all will happen unless the Presidents are really clueless...which they aren't. Connecticut and Cincinnati or one of the Florida schools get eyeballs....regardless of who else is around them.

People here and on other boards are under the misconception expansion only happens to tear apart a league they don't like--One that has participated in three championships the last three years, winning the MNC two seasons ago, in the four team playoff with an undefeated team this year and last, and once again playing for the MNC with the full backing of the primary carrier of college sports.

That has nothing to do with it--as you say its about MONEY. The BIG 12 has money now. As Oklahoma's president discussed last year though, they need to quickly turn their attentions to LATER. Because once the current contracts are up, things could change in a hurry if they aren't prepared. Being prepared doesn't mean waiting for two years after the existing contracts expire to try and do something.

 

[skygusty]

Divisions with permanent crossovers can also result in rematches. I seriously doubt that if they get deregulation approved that they will go ahead with expansion because the need for a new data point will have been achieved if they get a CCG with 10 teams. Expansion may occur down the road but it would not be because they need another data point. Expansion would not be urgent. The constant in this debate is that the conference does not want to expand with the available teams out there. If the conference wants to expand they did not need to pursue deregulation, they could simply add two teams and be done with it. The fact that their first option has been to pursue deregulation and not expansion clearly indicates their preference to me. I personally prefer 10 teams but going to 12 would not be the end of the world nor would it make the league stronger or immune to being raided by other conferences. I don't pretend to know what is going to happen like some do. This is my opinion based on how I read what has been said.

 

[Buckaineer]

Divisions with permanent crossovers can also result in rematches. I seriously doubt that if they get deregulation approved that they will go ahead with expansion because the need for a new data point will have been achieved if they get a CCG with 10 teams. Expansion may occur down the road but it would not be because they need another data point. Expansion would not be urgent. The constant in this debate is that the conference does not want to expand with the available teams out there. If the conference wants to expand they did not need to pursue deregulation, they could simply add two teams and be done with it. The fact that their first option has been to pursue deregulation and not expansion clearly indicates their preference to me. I personally prefer 10 teams but going to 12 would not be the end of the world nor would it make the league stronger or immune to being raided by other conferences. I don't pretend to know what is going to happen like some do. This is my opinion based on how I read what has been said.

Rematches in CCGs can occur, but they aren't guaranteed to occur as with a 10 team conference. There are many drawbacks to a ten team CCG that outweigh the benefit of playing a 10 team CCG which is just to get that extra "data point".

Playing a 10 team CCG can not only knock out your best team from playoff contention, it might also knock your league out of an access bowl. This means considerable money and prestige.

The conference likes round robin play and not playing a CCG. They thought they would be advantaged with these things. The reverse is true and they now see that. There's no benefit to playing a round robin schedule in the committees eyes or those that rank teams eyes--its about what you do OOC. There's a significant disadvantage to not having a CCG--it means with a loss you are getting dropped after everyone else plays their CCG-and some years that means dropped out of the playoffs.

Expansion can bring more fans and viewers, more and better recruits, more success for existing schools athletically, and future revenue streams not possible without it. There are more benefits than just getting a data point for playoff inclusion. Surely though, giving yourself an even shot, rather than disadvantage to make a four team playoff is very important and can't be overlooked. Playing a 10 team CCG with guaranteed rematch is never going to give the BIG 12 an even chance--just increase the chances of a loss by the top teams.

 

[skygusty]

There are no guarantees in any scenario of making the 4 team playoff. Our flagship teams need to start scheduling tougher out of conference and having undefeated seasons or 1 loss seasons against quality competition. It doesn't matter that other conferences have weak teams as long as they have 2 or 3 schools that are perennial contenders. I don't have the BIG12 team rosters in front of me but I am betting they already have a national recruiting base. I can't imagine our own fanbase would be terribly excited about adding Cincy, UCONN, Memphis or UCF. I can't imagine the rest of the conference being very enthusiastic either. Lots of games added that nobody is very interested in. I guess there must be some metric out there that says that population based viewership is important to a network package, but it won't be exciting to football fans anywhere. Money will win, that's the only guarantee I see. We will find out soon enough what the BIG12 is going to do.

 

[Buckaineer]

There are no guarantees for ANY conference in making a four team playoff. That is why you position your conference as best as you can to start from even with the other conferences rather than at a disadvantage.

Right now, the BIG 12 is at a disadvantage by having fewer schools and not having a CCG. Its a media disadvantage, a fan and viewer disadvantage. Its a recruiting disadvantage to some and a financial disadvantage to some. Its surely a disadvantage in ranking and athletic success. Sound conferences are doing what they can to ensure long term success, and that is what the BIG 12 must do as well.

Ideas of being excited about this team or that are pointless if one looks at the bigger picture which things could come to down the road if the BIG 12 takes no actions:

Would you rather play one game a year in football against a Cincinnati or UConn or Memphis along with matches against the existing BIG 12 schools (some yearly, some every year or two) and some OOC opponents, or do you want to gamble that in a decade your program will still be a part of major college athletics? Because its clear to see that if the BIG 12 doesn't make some changes then the future is not guaranteed at all--things aren't just going to magically remain as they are right now. The league must be proactive.

To claim games against competitive teams won't be attractive to fans makes no sense. WVU certainly had well attended and fan interest games against teams like Cincinnati and UConn in the past, and just because the teams are in different leagues now doesn't mean that will change. Nor does it mean WVU won't play everyone in the existing league for long stretches. If you don't play an Oklahoma, or Baylor or Texas in a given year, you schedule a VT, or PSU or Tennessee or similar matchup--the schedule strength remains as is and the home schedule remains attractive.

If nothing happens because you are holding out hope that long after your contract expires teams from another succesful league are going to come flocking (if your league is even still intact by then) then rather than worrying about playing one or two games a year against a UC or UConn, you'll be very dissapointed with a schedule of SMU, Temple, ECU, etc. in every game you play--and be playing all midweek games in a non power league.

 

[topdecktiger]

playing a 10 team CCG simply guarantees a rematch

No it doesn't. There is no rule that says you have to play 9 conference games.

 

[Mountaineer Steve]

He is wrong because he--and apparently you-are claiming that if the BIG 12 gets a deregulation vote, they will not expand. The conference has not said this.

If deregulation passes, it isn't ending expansion at all --because playing a 10 team CCG simply guarantees a rematch which no one thinks is a good idea. Deregulation also makes possible adding teams but not forming divisions in doing so--something that could be a sticking point in BIG 12 expansion.

Deregulation simply provides options not available now to the conference. If deregulation happens--the BIG 12 may choose to do nothing. They may choose to play a 10 team CCG. They may choose to expand and utilize deregulation to organize their league and championships as they see best suits their conference-as it should be. Delaney isn't trying to stop conferences from being able to play a CCG--he is specifically trying to stop the conferences from being able to forego divisions in selecting their champions.

Delaney doesn't want the ACC getting rid of divisions and just having the two best teams play, or the BIG 12 expanding and doing so without forming divisions--which of course makes expansion more palatable to those that don't really want to do it-or those that might consider joining the league.

I do think if dereg passes with BIG10 amendment, the BIG12 will NOT expand, but that is just a total guess

Most sources (reporters) say that if full deregulation passes that the BIG12 will put expansion on hold for the foreseeable future. Since they are closer to the situation have actually contacts within BIG12 office and or BIG12 schools, their articles, and opinion holds a great deal more weight than someone without contacts like yourself.

The reason the ACC wants dereg to pass is as you said to pick the two best programs for CCG and not
two programs that won their division that has given awful 7-5 teams

The reason the BIG12 is pushing for dereg is so they can have CCG without expansion.

 

[Mountaineer Steve]

No it doesn't. There is no rule that says you have to play 9 conference games.

There may not be a 'rule' but I believe the TV contracts forces the BIG12 to have a round robin as long as they stay at 10 teams

 

[CaliforniaMountaineer]

FSU was destroyed by Houston and Houston lost to UConn. Only Kansas would have had trouble with UConn this season. Two of the top three ACC programs were destroyed. Baylor didn't even have a QB and still lit up UNC for historic rushing #s. The BIG 12 is as good a conference as any while the ACC has one good team in any year.

It doesn't matter what your little thoughts on the BIG 12 are--its a power conference that made the playoffs. Clemson won with a little help from the refs (i.e. major pass interference that wasn't called). That isn't significant of anything other than one team playing better, not having injuries and getting some calls.

And Marshall beat UConn. Therefore, Marshall deserves the invite.

 

[skygusty]

I think it is up to the Big12 to decide, not fans like me. I'll live with whatever direction they go, even if they come up awful divisions and crossover matchups. I have seen nothing official from the conference how they are going to assign teams to the divisions, just lots of fan speculation. The Big12 would probably be better off kicking us out and adding BYU, Colorado State and Houston if they wanted to make their lives simple. I wonder if privately they think we are still worth the bother We add neither a huge television market or a recruiting area and are an expensive pain in the ass to travel to. To appease us they will have to add teams that the rest of the Big12 cares about even less than WVU. Oh well, maybe they can be satisfied with coming east and adding enough crappy teams so that Texas can have a winning record again. I'm sure all the big networks are salivating in anticipation over the idea that Cincinnati or Memphis or UCONN might bring their weighty football traditions to the BIG12. Even if this HAS to happen, I don't have to like it.

 

[topdecktiger]

There may not be a 'rule' but I believe the TV contracts forces the BIG12 to have a round robin as long as they stay at 10 teams

The TV contract doesn't mandate playing 9 conference games. The Big 12 did that on their own.

 

[MountainBill]

Ohio offers a much larger television market than the state of Utah does plus it has better football players than Utah does another typical Ill informed mouth breathing post

Ohio has more tv Sets than Indiana too and Notre Dame would be a better pick than Cincy. BYU is a NATIONAL program with loyal and well heeled followers.

 

[ColoradoMountaineer]

Ohio has more tv Sets than Indiana too and Notre Dame would be a better pick than Cincy. BYU is a NATIONAL program with loyal and well heeled followers.

Notre Dame has a national Following and its own TV contract. There is quite a difference in the size of The lds population when compared to the catholic population. If BYU had a great national following they would be as accessible on your TV set every Saturday as Notre dame currently is and they wouldn't be whining about there worthiness of Big 12 Membership. The military academy's probably have more national following than BYU does. Byu's appeal wasn't strong enough to Keep the rivalry game with Utah on your TV sets. I can still see the Army navy game.

 

[Mountaineer Steve]

The TV contract doesn't mandate playing 9 conference games. The Big 12 did that on their own.

I think you are wrong on that. I know for a fact when the BIG12 first went to 10 teams the ESPN demanded they play 9 team round robin order to have enough content. By doing so ESPN agreed not to take away revenue from the conference when Neb and Colo left. I believe the new contracts with FOX and ESPN keep that round robin mandate in place.

 

[topdecktiger]

I think you are wrong on that. I know for a fact when the BIG12 first went to 10 teams the ESPN demanded they play 9 team round robin order to have enough content. By doing so ESPN agreed not to take away revenue from the conference when Neb and Colo left. I believe the new contracts with FOX and ESPN keep that round robin mandate in place.

No, I'm not wrong. They aren't required to play 9 games. Actually, you end up with less content by playing 9 conference games vs. 8.

 

[topdecktiger]

The BIG 12 by contract with their tv partners plays 9 conference games.

Isn't mentioned anywhere.

 

[Buckaineer]

Isn't mentioned anywhere.

Bowlsby said previously that it was by contract, but he's made some conflicting statements on it.

 

[topdecktiger]

Bowlsby said previously that it was by contract, but he's made some conflicting statements on it.

I haven't found any such statement.

 

[Buckaineer]

I haven't found any such statement.

ESPN:
We've heard so much from you and others about how much this league loves the 10-member set up and round-robin scheduling in football, but what's the chief argument you've heard against having an 11 or 12-member league?

BOWLSBY:
One of the things we've committed to is playing a nine-game league schedule. With 10 members, it's a round-robin, but a nine-game league schedule goes right to the heart of our agreements with ESPN and Fox. We have promised them that we would have the inventory that's available with a nine-game season.

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/colleges/post/_/id/4679568/part-2-big-12-commish-bob-bowlsby-qa

 

[Woody in Helvetia]

ESPN:
We've heard so much from you and others about how much this league loves the 10-member set up and round-robin scheduling in football, but what's the chief argument you've heard against having an 11 or 12-member league?

BOWLSBY:
One of the things we've committed to is playing a nine-game league schedule. With 10 members, it's a round-robin, but a nine-game league schedule goes right to the heart of our agreements with ESPN and Fox. We have promised them that we would have the inventory that's available with a nine-game season.

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/colleges/post/_/id/4679568/part-2-big-12-commish-bob-bowlsby-qa

But TopdeckTiger is NEVER wrong. It just can't be true. I gave up any discussion with him months ago.

Good job Buck.

 

[Mountaineer Steve]

Story from today
BOWLSBY
Asked if that compromise could include two divisions, Bowlsby said: “We do not want to add members or be forced to play two divisions. Any compromise would have to consider those two provisions.

http://www.foxsports.com/college-fo...-sec-greg-sankey-ncaa-rule-change-vote-011016

As I have been saying, If full dereg is passed, expansion is dead at least until new contracts. However if it is voted down, expect teams to be added by 2017.

The question is what the BIG12 will do if BIG10 amendment is adopted. I think they will expand.

 

[Buckaineer]

Story from today
BOWLSBY
Asked if that compromise could include two divisions, Bowlsby said: “We do not want to add members or be forced to play two divisions. Any compromise would have to consider those two provisions.

http://www.foxsports.com/college-fo...-sec-greg-sankey-ncaa-rule-change-vote-011016

As I have been saying, If full dereg is passed, expansion is dead at least until new contracts. However if it is voted down, expect teams to be added by 2017.

The question is what the BIG12 will do if BIG10 amendment is adopted. I think they will expand.

Bowlsby claims here "we do not want to add members". Yet WVU's Gordon Gee has spoken out in favor of expansion-even to 14 members. Oklahoma's president Boren has spoken out definitively as in favor of expansion. Iowa State's president has spoken in favor of expansion. Kansas State's football coach has clearly spoken in favor of expansion and one might infer he is in contact with that schools leaders on the matter and has their best interest at heart.

Bowlsby needs to specify exactly who does not want to expand, because he is speaking for a few, not everyone.

As to expansion being dead "until the contracts are up"--the conference can't wait until its contracts are up to think about expansion if they are going to expand. The Pac 12 will have renewed its contracts already, the SEC will be still locked up through 2036, the Big Ten probably as long and the ACC will still have two years remaining on its grant of rights agreement itself--and by the looks of it have participated multiple years in the playoffs. The BIG 12 won't be in a better expansion position then anymore than now--and in reality less so.

 

[Mountaineer Steve]

Bowlsby claims here "we do not want to add members". Yet WVU's Gordon Gee has spoken out in favor of expansion-even to 14 members. Oklahoma's president Boren has spoken out definitively as in favor of expansion. Iowa State's president has spoken in favor of expansion. Kansas State's football coach has clearly spoken in favor of expansion and one might infer he is in contact with that schools leaders on the matter and has their best interest at heart.

Bowlsby needs to specify exactly who does not want to expand, because he is speaking for a few, not everyone.

As to expansion being dead "until the contracts are up"--the conference can't wait until its contracts are up to think about expansion if they are going to expand. The Pac 12 will have renewed its contracts already, the SEC will be still locked up through 2036, the Big Ten probably as long and the ACC will still have two years remaining on its grant of rights agreement itself--and by the looks of it have participated multiple years in the playoffs. The BIG 12 won't be in a better expansion position then anymore than now--and in reality less so.

For some reason you continue to pick and choose the quotes you use, yet ignore quotes that does not match your expansion theory.

• Not sure what his reasons are but I agree Boren is clearly in favor of expansion
• Obviously WVU wants to expand to the east to bridge the geographic gap.
• I believe Bowslby would like to expand but has repeatedly said the BIG12 does not have the appetite to expand. or have the votes to do so

The problem with your expansion theory is it requires a 75% major majority to pass. That requires 8 teams in favor to pass. Take this do the bank, If full deregulation passes, expansion is dead.

I think Expansion will pass if dereg is totally voted down.

It is anyone's guess what BIG12 will do if the BIG10 rule is adopted. Splitting into division with just 10 teams while still playing a full round robin, seems weird at best

 

[Buckaineer]

For some reason you continue to pick and choose the quotes you use, yet ignore quotes that does not match your expansion theory.

• Not sure what his reasons are but I agree Boren is clearly in favor of expansion
• Obviously WVU wants to expand to the east to bridge the geographic gap.
• I believe Bowslby would like to expand but has repeatedly said the BIG12 does not have the appetite to expand. or have the votes to do so

The problem with your expansion theory is it requires a 75% major majority to pass. That requires 8 teams in favor to pass. Take this do the bank, If full deregulation passes, expansion is dead.

I think Expansion will pass if dereg is totally voted down.

It is anyone's guess what BIG12 will do if the BIG10 rule is adopted. Splitting into division with just 10 teams while still playing a full round robin, seems weird at best

If you are going to make some claim about me "picking and choosing" then show where I've done this.
What exactly that I said is not true? Gee said he's in favor of expansion. The ISU president said he's in favor. OU's president is CLEARLY in favor. Others in the conference have spoken out in favor that have influence at their schools such as Bill Snyder.

Yet, you want to latch onto a comment claiming that the league doesn't want expansion? Based on what? There aren't quotes on file except from TCU and perhaps Texas Tech leaders saying they do not want to expand.

I'm simply saying Bowlsby needs to clarify--he can't say "we don't want" when what he means is "some don't want".

 

[Mountaineer Steve]

If you are going to make some claim about me "picking and choosing" then show where I've done this.
What exactly that I said is not true? Gee said he's in favor of expansion. The ISU president said he's in favor. OU's president is CLEARLY in favor. Others in the conference have spoken out in favor that have influence at their schools such as Bill Snyder.

Yet, you want to latch onto a comment claiming that the league doesn't want expansion? Based on what? There aren't quotes on file except from TCU and perhaps Texas Tech leaders saying they do not want to expand.

I'm simply saying Bowlsby needs to clarify--he can't say "we don't want" when what he means is "some don't want".

WTF needs to be clarified? Only you needs a statement as clear as this clarified because it does not meet your line of expansion thinking

SEC commissioner Greg Sankey said Sunday he will not support the vote next week to deregulate the ACC and Big 12 championships. Does this statement need clarified? Of course not, because it is clear he is not supporting it.

 

[Mountaineer Steve]

WTF needs to be clarified? Only you needs a statement as clear as this clarified because it does not meet your line of expansion thinking

SEC commissioner Greg Sankey said Sunday he will not support the vote next week to deregulate the ACC and Big 12 championships. Does this statement need clarified? Of course not, because it is clear he is not supporting it.

Or better yet, maybe you need WVU to clarify what they mean when they say, they support expansion.

 

[Buckaineer]

WTF needs to be clarified? Only you needs a statement as clear as this clarified because it does not meet your line of expansion thinking

SEC commissioner Greg Sankey said Sunday he will not support the vote next week to deregulate the ACC and Big 12 championships. Does this statement need clarified? Of course not, because it is clear he is not supporting it.

WTF are you talking about? There are DIRECT QUOTES from leaders at BIG 12 schools including the University of Oklahoma and WVUs president stating THEY WANT EXPANSION. Therefore a statement "WE don't want expansion" needs clarification CLEARLY. Because if SOME want expansion and they are certainly part of the conference, you cannot claim "WE" don't want expansion, only that SOME don't and some DO.

I know this doesn't fit your do nothing until the ACC falls apart (LOL!!!) agenda, but there's nothing wrong with what I've stated if you simply try and comprehend what I've stated.

 

[Mountaineer Steve]

WTF are you talking about? There are DIRECT QUOTES from leaders at BIG 12 schools including the University of Oklahoma and WVUs president stating THEY WANT EXPANSION. Therefore a statement "WE don't want expansion" needs clarification CLEARLY. Because if SOME want expansion and they are certainly part of the conference, you cannot claim "WE" don't want expansion, only that SOME don't and some DO.

I know this doesn't fit your do nothing until the ACC falls apart (LOL!!!) agenda, but there's nothing wrong with what I've stated if you simply try and comprehend what I've stated.

Let me type this slow so you understand. We meaning the BIG12 does not have a super majorly (8 teams) to pass expansion.

Unlike you, I have no preference on expansion, I see good and bad to both. I am just stating facts, as it stands today, there are not enough votes. This may change if dereg with our without BIG10 rule fails to pass.

 

[Buckaineer]

Let me type this slow so you understand. We meaning the BIG12 does not have a super majorly (8 teams) to pass expansion.

Unlike you, I have no preference on expansion, I see good and bad to both. I am just stating facts, as it stands today, there are not enough votes. This may change if dereg with our without BIG10 rule fails to pass.

Bowlsby DID NOT SAY the BIG 12 doesn't have a supermajority to vote on expansion. He stated "WE DO NOT WANT EXPANSION". Something he has done before and this is clearly NOT TRUE.

You don't know if there are votes out there for voting expansion or not--you are making a GUESS because it fits your agenda of no expansion. The only thing we know is that they haven't expanded yet.

I have no agenda or preference on expansion, but I can look at the evidence and clearly see it is in the best interests of West Virginia University and the conference its in for that conference to expand.

Regardless, one cannot claim "WE" don't wan't to expand when several are on record desiring expansion--one of those is the most or second most influential party in the conference and its not known how many fit in the negative votes towards expansion. Again, there is no word on majority, supermajority or anything else--you have simply imagined that because its what you want to be, but it IS NOT SO based on any evidence.

There's clearly evidence that some DO want expansion and from reports from those in the professional media that report on the conference, the numbers of those seeing expansion as something needed for the conference is growing, not shrinking.

 

[Pitt4Life34]

The BIG 12 is an elite conference. Its not "middle heavy". Its strong top to bottom. Last year they had teams in TCU and Baylor that could have won the MNC. This year they had a strong set of schools that knocked each other out, knocked players out and unfortunately had multiple injuries and some refs that couldn't see in a playoff game.
Clemson dominated OU with pass interference calls that weren't called-except against OU. Everytime OU did anything good in that game--flags flew against them. Clemson was ranked #1--they should win the game and did. It doesn't mean your trolling attacks on the BIG 12 have any validity unless you also think the Big Ten sucks and the Pac 12 really sucks--cause MSU lost 38-0 and the Pac 12 couldn't even make the playoffs.

Obviously you know nothing about college football though. The ACC is the last place conference which happened to have one good team in it. That team didn't beat every BIG 12 school, just one, and their second and third place teams were demolished by a QBless BIG 12 squad that had historic rushing numbers against your beloved ACC, and the other was stomped by a mid major. Nothing to brag about there.

Always get a kick out of the conference pride guy, you, that ignores facts. Get on the main board and see what America thinks about the Big12. Your conference pride obsession is actually kinda sad !!! Feelsorryforyouman!
So you're going to your grave claiming the Big12 is better than the ACC like anyone gives a crap. You think Clemson is thinking about the things you are thinking about? Get a grip pal! Start focussing on WVU and stop being so insecure. How'd that NCAA vote go? Your promise land Big12 gonna add UCONN and Cinci now? That should help your argument a lot. Focus on WVU and get a grip. The other guy is right. You are wrong.

 

[Buckaineer]

Always get a kick out of you ACC pride guys. You've had two programs competitive for a few years and act like that means the rest of the conference is good.

The BIG 12 had a great regular season and a mediocre bowl season. The ACC didn't exactly light the bowl season on fire either btw. OU had its two top RBs injured and couldn't run in their bowl. TCU's QB was out just before their bowl game and they still won. Baylor crushed the ACC's #2 without a QB easily, and would have done the same to Clemson more than likely. Your conference pride obsession is absolutely pitiful.

There isn't anyone out there (in the real world outside your message board fantasy world) that doesn't think the BIG 12 is the better conference. All the stats and polls show that IS the case.

As for goings on in the BIG 12 you haven't got a clue so spare us all your idiocy.

 

[Mountaineer Steve]

Always get a kick out of you ACC pride guys. You've had two programs competitive for a few years and act like that means the rest of the conference is good.

The BIG 12 had a great regular season and a mediocre bowl season. OU had its two top RBs injured and couldn't run. TCU's QB was out just before the game and they still won. Baylor crushed the ACC's #2 without a QB easily, and would have done the same to Clemson more than likely. Your conference pride obsession is absolutely pitiful.

There isn't anyone out there that doesn't think the BIG 12 is the better conference. All the stats and polls show that IS the case.

As for goings on in the BIG 12 you haven't got a clue so spare us all your idiocy.

I do have a clue,

In July Bowlsby there is not critical mass to expand
http://espn.go.com/college-football...by-holds-firm-expansion-conference-title-game
BOWLSBY
"It is my understanding at the present time that the majority of our presidents and chancellors believe 10 is the right number for us," Bowlsby said. "There are those that believe we should get larger, and they feel strongly about it. There are those who believe we should stay at 10, and they feel strongly about it. And there are probably four or five in the middle who are persuadable one way or the other. And I think that's exactly where we're at."

And today

BOWLSBY
the conference does not want to add members or be forced to play two divisions. If there's any sort of compromise, "those two provisions would have to be considered," Bowlsby said.

You should run for president because you are the king of Spin. You are the only person who can't get it of just refuses to get the follwoing.

Straight from the leader of the BIG12, the only thing we know is there are not enough votes to pass expansion today, and no matter how much you yearn for it, the BIG 12 won't expand if full deregulation passes. It is the reason the BIG12 is putting so much effort in passing total deregulation.

 

[GetYaNumbersUp]

Buck, your obsession with expansion is creepy. Especially when it resolves around dumpster fires like Uconn and Cinci.

 

[Round Hillbilly]

im surprised nobody has mentioned villanova in all of this...maybe they will want to upgrade their football program now

 

[Buckaineer]

I do have a clue,

In July Bowlsby there is not critical mass to expand
http://espn.go.com/college-football...by-holds-firm-expansion-conference-title-game
BOWLSBY
"It is my understanding at the present time that the majority of our presidents and chancellors believe 10 is the right number for us," Bowlsby said. "There are those that believe we should get larger, and they feel strongly about it. There are those who believe we should stay at 10, and they feel strongly about it. And there are probably four or five in the middle who are persuadable one way or the other. And I think that's exactly where we're at."

And today

BOWLSBY
the conference does not want to add members or be forced to play two divisions. If there's any sort of compromise, "those two provisions would have to be considered," Bowlsby said.

You should run for president because you are the king of Spin. You are the only person who can't get it of just refuses to get the follwoing.

Straight from the leader of the BIG12, the only thing we know is there are not enough votes to pass expansion today, and no matter how much you yearn for it, the BIG 12 won't expand if full deregulation passes. It is the reason the BIG12 is putting so much effort in passing total deregulation.

There is no spin when I state truthfully that if some believe "we" should get larger, some believe "we" should stay at 10 and others could be persuaded either way, that it is FALSE to proclaim "WE DON'T WANT TO EXPAND". Nowhere in the details of what people want to do or not do is there a critical mass of desire to NOT expand. Therefore, any claim otherwise needs explanation.

Spin is exactly what has been done here. Stating "WE DON"T WANT TO EXPAND" when some want to, and some are persuadable, its simply NOT TRUE to claim a majority do not.

And other ADs stated this to FOX last summer after David Boren commented:
"A number of us would love to go 12, but you have to consider the difficulties of doing so," one athletic director told FOX Sports Southwest.

 

[skygusty]

I do have a clue,

In July Bowlsby there is not critical mass to expand
http://espn.go.com/college-football...by-holds-firm-expansion-conference-title-game
BOWLSBY
"It is my understanding at the present time that the majority of our presidents and chancellors believe 10 is the right number for us," Bowlsby said. "There are those that believe we should get larger, and they feel strongly about it. There are those who believe we should stay at 10, and they feel strongly about it. And there are probably four or five in the middle who are persuadable one way or the other. And I think that's exactly where we're at."

And today

BOWLSBY
the conference does not want to add members or be forced to play two divisions. If there's any sort of compromise, "those two provisions would have to be considered," Bowlsby said.

You should run for president because you are the king of Spin. You are the only person who can't get it of just refuses to get the follwoing.

Straight from the leader of the BIG12, the only thing we know is there are not enough votes to pass expansion today, and no matter how much you yearn for it, the BIG 12 won't expand if full deregulation passes. It is the reason the BIG12 is putting so much effort in passing total deregulation.

I have to accept that SOME of what has been said is window dressing. Some of it is possibly just goodwill wishing toward WVU. Nice things can be said about accommodating us, when the reality is that Bowlsby knows that currently the votes are not there to expand. Easy to say that they are going to look out for us. But if expansion ever is forced on the conference, I can't help but think that the real powers in the league may really not want to add teams in the east. It is all speculative until after we see how the dereg vote goes. If the Big12 cannot get a CCG and stay at ten teams they will expand. Why would they really care what WVU wants or needs? We have no other option than the BIG12. There are only two teams who could join whatever conference they wanted. There are only two teams that if they left would cripple the conference. There are only two teams nationally recognized as premier programs. The real power lies with Texas and Oklahoma. Whatever they want, if they can find common ground, is probably where the conference is going to go. I'm not totally convinced they will choose to add two more teams in the eastern time zone. What ever direction they go is probably going to be viewed in terms of what is best for the two big dogs.

 

[Buckaineer]

I have to accept that SOME of what has been said is window dressing. Some of it is possibly just goodwill wishing toward WVU. Nice things can be said about accommodating us, when the reality is that Bowlsby knows that currently the votes are not there to expand. Easy to say that they are going to look out for us. But if expansion ever is forced on the conference, I can't help but think that the real powers in the league may really not want to add teams in the east. It is all speculative until after we see how the dereg vote goes. If the Big12 cannot get a CCG and stay at ten teams they will expand. Why would they really care what WVU wants or needs? We have no other option than the BIG12. There are only two teams who could join whatever conference they wanted. There are only two teams that if they left would cripple the conference. There are only two teams nationally recognized as premier programs. The real power lies with Texas and Oklahoma. Whatever they want, if they can find common ground, is probably where the conference is going to go. I'm not totally convinced they will choose to add two more teams in the eastern time zone. What ever direction they go is probably going to be viewed in terms of what is best for the two big dogs.

Oklahoma's president has directly expressed where he thinks the conference should go in expansion, as has the commissioner as have other members.

Here's a video of OU's David Boren discussing where the BIG 12 should expand:

Bowlsby further stated this to NBC Sports:
“We have one member in West Virginia that’s on the East Coast,” Bowlsby said. “We have to be mindful of their situation. If we took somebody in that was on the far West Coast it would certainly do a disservice to our member in West Virginia. As I mentioned earlier, it may be a different set of criteria to some of our members than it is to other members. As the commissioner, I certainly have to take all 10 institutions and their sensitivities into play.”

 

[Buckaineer]

Buck, your obsession with expansion is creepy. Especially when it resolves around dumpster fires like Uconn and Cinci.

I didn't bring up UConn and Cincinnati, national media and the BIG 12 conference did.

There's nothing wrong with those candidates however, each would be good additions.

Your obsession with disparaging anything proactive for the BIG 12 is creepy.

 

[Buckaineer]

The vote on deregulation comes up this week and has been pointed out--now the SEC commissioner is also against the ACC/BIG 12 proposal:

Will Big 12 be forced to expand if it wants a championship game?
SCOTTSDALE -- For two years, the Big 12 has been pushing to change an NCAA rule that currently prevents the 10-team conference from hosting a championship game if it so chooses. Most parties long assumed it to be a formality.

But with the Big 12 and ACC’s deregulation proposal finally going to vote at next week’s NCAA convention, it now looks like the Big 12 won’t get exactly what it wanted. Which could have wide-ranging ramifications if league members decide they have no choice but to expand to 12 teams.

http://www.foxsports.com/college-fo...-sec-greg-sankey-ncaa-rule-change-vote-011016