Expansion

[Mountaineer Steve]

I see two possible outcomes. The conference will decide to expand counciding with the Big Tens new contracts. A CCG will be enacted and there will be a significant bump in payouts. A conference network will be arranged that gradually phases in the LHN. Either the networks will renegotiate the Big 12 deal to extend much further out, or in 2025 the conference will redo the existing contracts with a much higher payout than possible now. In 2025-2027 the new BIG 12 will work to add ACC schools as that conference runs out of financial means to keep pace and FSU and others decide to move on.

Or, the conference will not expand, leading to yearly renatches which will knock the BIG 12 out if the playoffs numerous years. Negative press will escalate, recruiting will drop off, the conference will be offered a lowball contract after years of non competitive teams nationally and lower tv ratings than others. OU will have been in the planning stages of departing for years and will do so with OSU to the Pac 12- quickly followed by UT and Texas Tech. Kansas and Iowa State will be absorbed in the Big 10 as they are AAU. Baylor and TCU will make the SEC a 16 team conference. Kansas State and WVU will be left searching for homes as the ACC works to add UConn and Notre Dame to finish off their 16 team league.

You will be claiming all the while this is in the works that the ACC is falling apart any day now so the BIG 12 should hold off doing anything.

Regarding rematches, you are totally wrong. Number 1 you are assuming the higher ranked team is going to lose which at its premises is just silly.

Number 2, had the big 12 had 10 team CCG game last year, the winner of that game BU or TCU would not have bumped from the playoff. rematches are going to happen, it is just 100% sure with the BIG12. The PAC has a 75% chance of a rematch, and you don't see anyone running around crying the sky is falling.

No I won't be claiming the ACC is falling apart. What I will say is if the BIG expands it will do so with ACC teams either a combination of UNC/DUKE or 2 from VT/UVA/GT, and not from the BIG12.

Oh, and OU isn't going anywhere.

 

[Mountaineer Steve]

I see two possible outcomes. The conference will decide to expand counciding with the Big Tens new contracts. A CCG will be enacted and there will be a significant bump in payouts. A conference network will be arranged that gradually phases in the LHN. Either the networks will renegotiate the Big 12 deal to extend much further out, or in 2025 the conference will redo the existing contracts with a much higher payout than possible now. In 2025-2027 the new BIG 12 will work to add ACC schools as that conference runs out of financial means to keep pace and FSU and others decide to move on.

Or, the conference will not expand, leading to yearly renatches which will knock the BIG 12 out if the playoffs numerous years. Negative press will escalate, recruiting will drop off, the conference will be offered a lowball contract after years of non competitive teams nationally and lower tv ratings than others. OU will have been in the planning stages of departing for years and will do so with OSU to the Pac 12- quickly followed by UT and Texas Tech. Kansas and Iowa State will be absorbed in the Big 10 as they are AAU. Baylor and TCU will make the SEC a 16 team conference. Kansas State and WVU will be left searching for homes as the ACC works to add UConn and Notre Dame to finish off their 16 team league.

You will be claiming all the while this is in the works that the ACC is falling apart any day now so the BIG 12 should hold off doing anything.

P.S. Now you are just making things up. You are running screaming like a chicken with his head cut off, and it sounds , you hope the conference falls apart if they do not expand.

Kansas Maybe, but the BIG does not need or want Iowa St, and they are not going to spread into Texas. Geographically the best expansion for the BIG is in the east.

 

[topdecktiger]

I see two possible outcomes. The conference will decide to expand counciding with the Big Tens new contracts. A CCG will be enacted and there will be a significant bump in payouts. A conference network will be arranged that gradually phases in the LHN. Either the networks will renegotiate the Big 12 deal to extend much further out, or in 2025 the conference will redo the existing contracts with a much higher payout than possible now. In 2025-2027 the new BIG 12 will work to add ACC schools as that conference runs out of financial means to keep pace and FSU and others decide to move on.

Or, the conference will not expand, leading to yearly renatches which will knock the BIG 12 out if the playoffs numerous years. Negative press will escalate, recruiting will drop off, the conference will be offered a lowball contract after years of non competitive teams nationally and lower tv ratings than others. OU will have been in the planning stages of departing for years and will do so with OSU to the Pac 12- quickly followed by UT and Texas Tech. Kansas and Iowa State will be absorbed in the Big 10 as they are AAU. Baylor and TCU will make the SEC a 16 team conference. Kansas State and WVU will be left searching for homes as the ACC works to add UConn and Notre Dame to finish off their 16 team league.

You will be claiming all the while this is in the works that the ACC is falling apart any day now so the BIG 12 should hold off doing anything.

One thing here. You said the SEC would take Baylor and TCU to go to 16. The SEC has already said they won't take Florida St, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Louisville, or Miami because they are already inside the conference footprint. Well, if that's the case, they wouldn't take Baylor or TCU either, because they are already inside the footprint. If you are going to make the argument that they want to get a stronger foothold in the Texas market, then by that same logic, they should take Florida St and Miami to get a stronger foothold in the Florida market.

 

[Buckaineer]

M Steve, if the BIG 12 doesnt expand and adopt a comprehensive plan, OU is going to leave. They have told everyone its so. Youd have to be naive or worse to think the president of a university would claim that but not do it.

If the conference has guaranteed rematches sometimes the higher ranked will lose. This has happened before-multiple times in the B12. No one said theyll lose every one, but theyll lose 50% or have a high likelihood.

This is going to cause multiple years with no BIG 12 participant in playoffs.

There will be continuous negative press, lower recruiting, stagnant or decling tv ratings and negotiation of a new contract will become very difficult. The conferences payout offer will be below the other P 5s. Schools that can leave will leave.

 

[Buckaineer]

P.S. Now you are just making things up. You are running screaming like a chicken with his head cut off, and it sounds , you hope the conference falls apart if they do not expand.

Kansas Maybe, but the BIG does not need or want Iowa St, and they are not going to spread into Texas. Geographically the best expansion for the BIG is in the east.

No, im realistically looking at outcomes. The Big 10 wants AAU schools. They want contiguous schools. If the Big 12 is breaking up and desired teams are gone theyll add the next desired group from AAU choices. Iowa State has great bb and sometimes good football with a 60,000 seat stadium that sells out-and strong academics-as well as a political partner much like VT. Wont be first choice, but ahead if schools like WVU, Kansas State for certain.

The ACC isnt breaking up

 

[Buckaineer]

One thing here. You said the SEC would take Baylor and TCU to go to 16. The SEC has already said they won't take Florida St, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Louisville, or Miami because they are already inside the conference footprint. Well, if that's the case, they wouldn't take Baylor or TCU either, because they are already inside the footprint. If you are going to make the argument that they want to get a stronger foothold in the Texas market, then by that same logic, they should take Florida St and Miami to get a stronger foothold in the Florida market.

They CANT take FSU- FSU is under a gor through 2027. If the BIG 12 collapses in 2025 then schools are free and TCU and Baylor are strong academically and in sports and in the top recruiting state. TCU is in a huge market

 

[Mountaineer Steve]

Fight the good fight Buck. Most don't seem to get that your expansion threads are discussing the most important issue facing WVU athletics. Seems simple: a bigger, stronger media footprint Big 12-2=10 is critical to Mountaineer football's future. But, some are threatened by new folks moving into the neighborhood apparently!

First off, nothing we say influences what will happens
Second, I personally am not arguing against expansion because. I know it will help WVU to expand to the east. So my argument is not what is good for the BIG12, but why the BIG12 won't expand.

 

[Buckaineer]

First off, nothing we say influences what will happens
Second, I personally am not arguing against expansion because. I know it will help WVU to expand to the east. So my argument is not what is good for the BIG12, but why the BIG12 won't expand.

Your argument is based on misconceptions. Rematches guarantee losses to one of the top teams. They also are going to cause misses in playoffs.

Also, the ACC is locked in through 2027 and no one is waiting for those schools.

The BIG 12 however needs a comprehensive plan or schools are going to leave.

 

[Mountaineer Steve]

No, im realistically looking at outcomes. The Big 10 wants AAU schools. They want contiguous schools. If the Big 12 is breaking up and desired teams are gone theyll add the next desired group from AAU choices. Iowa State has great bb and sometimes good football with a 60,000 seat stadium that sells out-and strong academics-as well as a political partner much like VT. Wont be first choice, but ahead if schools like WVU, Kansas State for certain.

The ACC isnt breaking up

If and when the BIG expands, it will do so with states not already in covered with existing. It is not realistic to think that the BIG would invite ISU since Iowa is already covered. Texas is not a contiguous state and that won't expand that far out of their market.

 

[Buckaineer]

If and when the BIG expands, it will do so with states not already in covered with existing. It is not realistic to think that the BIG would invite ISU since Iowa is already covered. Texas is not a contiguous state and that won't expand that far out of their market.

They may want to do that, but they wont if they cant get schools they covet and they cant get schools they covet.

If OU and UT are gone, if it wants 16 teams and the only available teams are from the BIG 12?--look who is AAU. Theyll get pro rata for them at worse and add content to their BTN and network packages plus appease politicians in Iowa

 

[Mountaineer Steve]

One thing here. You said the SEC would take Baylor and TCU to go to 16. The SEC has already said they won't take Florida St, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Louisville, or Miami because they are already inside the conference footprint. Well, if that's the case, they wouldn't take Baylor or TCU either, because they are already inside the footprint. If you are going to make the argument that they want to get a stronger foothold in the Texas market, then by that same logic, they should take Florida St and Miami to get a stronger foothold in the Florida market.

I forgot about that, and you are correct

 

[Mountaineer Steve]

They may want to do that, but they wont if they cant get schools they covet and they cant get schools they covet.

If OU and UT are gone, if it wants 16 teams and the only available teams are from the BIG 12?--look who is AAU. Theyll get pro rata for them at worse and add content to their BTN and network packages plus appease politicians in Iowa

You act like the ACC is in a position of power over the BIG12 and it is not. ACC 3rd tier rights are bundled into ESPN contract and the per team payout is still less than the BIG12. BIG12 TV right including individual 3rd tier rights is far greater than ACC.

The BIG gave the ACC a big FU, when it worked to help the BIG12 get a 10 team CCG game while shutting down the ACCs attempt to rig a Clemson vs FSU every year. The ACC knows it is screwed because one upset and they are done. UNC's only loss game in game one to South Carolina. Had they beating Clemson in the CCG, the ACC would not had made the playoffs.

ANY AAU school in the ACC will jump at the chance to move to the BIG where they join a conference with ALL AAU TEAM. making vast more money. The same can be sai about any BIG12 program. However OU won't get an invite no matter how much they beg. The ACC schools are a better geographically fit. No way they make a huge leap to Texas schools leaving them as an outlier. program

 

[topdecktiger]

They CANT take FSU- FSU is under a gor through 2027. If the BIG 12 collapses in 2025 then schools are free and TCU and Baylor are strong academically and in sports and in the top recruiting state. TCU is in a huge market

The Big 12 GOR runs out in 2025, and the ACC runs out in 2027. In that case, it would be easy to just wait two years and take the teams they really want. You think Clemson and Florida St would turn down an offer from the SEC?

The SEC already has TCU's market. They already get the in-footprint subscription for the SECN in Texas, and they already have carriage in that market. The SEC would make more money by adding teams outside the footprint, which was the point of my original comment.

You really think the SEC cares about academics?

 

[topdecktiger]

They may want to do that, but they wont if they cant get schools they covet and they cant get schools they covet.

If OU and UT are gone, if it wants 16 teams and the only available teams are from the BIG 12?--look who is AAU. Theyll get pro rata for them at worse and add content to their BTN and network packages plus appease politicians in Iowa

Here's the point, if they can't get the teams they want, then why go to 16? They aren't expanding just for the sake of expanding. They are doing it to get more money.

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

How about just a little perspective regarding the doom and gloom predicted for the Big 12? Let's take a look at the 'mighty' PAC 12 who did not have a team in the playoffs for 2015. You want to read about fans and school officials worried about maintaining relevance? Check this out: http://espn.go.com/blog/pac12/post/...-stability-pac-12-has-issues-on-and-off-field

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

My actual point is, so many of us see a glass as half empty. Maybe all it needs is topped off.

 

[Mountaineer Steve]

The Big 12 GOR runs out in 2025, and the ACC runs out in 2027. In that case, it would be easy to just wait two years and take the teams they really want. You think Clemson and Florida St would turn down an offer from the SEC?

The SEC already has TCU's market. They already get the in-footprint subscription for the SECN in Texas, and they already have carriage in that market. The SEC would make more money by adding teams outside the footprint, which was the point of my original comment.

You really think the SEC cares about academics?

No, they probably would not, but the SEC is not interested in FSU and Clemson when it comes to expansion. The would be looking to expand their territoriality, not cover states they already own. They already have the flag ship schools University of Fla and South Carolina University. I think the SEC would covet VA Tech, and a North Carolina program giving them 2 states they don't already have. They could also go after a sPitt. Just like the BIG I can't see them wanting outlier programs as far away as BC, Cuse, or UCONN. Not to mention USC, UofF, Kentucky, UGA, have an agreement in place to vote against any programs in their respective states .

Let's not forget that the BIG and ACC are competing for North East market. They both can't wait to have their BB tournament NY City, namely MSG. The BIG East is losing its luster and will eventually lose that coveted spot. What better way to make sure they get that Jewel then to remove a few BB powers from their biggest territorial rival

 

[Buckaineer]

You act like the ACC is in a position of power over the BIG12 and it is not. ACC 3rd tier rights are bundled into ESPN contract and the per team payout is still less than the BIG12. BIG12 TV right including individual 3rd tier rights is far greater than ACC.

The BIG gave the ACC a big FU, when it worked to help the BIG12 get a 10 team CCG game while shutting down the ACCs attempt to rig a Clemson vs FSU every year. The ACC knows it is screwed because one upset and they are done. UNC's only loss game in game one to South Carolina. Had they beating Clemson in the CCG, the ACC would not had made the playoffs.

ANY AAU school in the ACC will jump at the chance to move to the BIG where they join a conference with ALL AAU TEAM. making vast more money. The same can be sai about any BIG12 program. However OU won't get an invite no matter how much they beg. The ACC schools are a better geographically fit. No way they make a huge leap to Texas schools leaving them as an outlier. program

Why are you obsessed with the ACC. It has nothing to do with the BIG 12. The ACC won A championship two seasons ago and has participated both years of the playoff. They whipped OU last year and beat them this year again. They are backed by the most powerful sports network 100%. Their tv ratings have improved. Their recruiting is better than the BIG 12s now. How you look at that and think they aren't in a power position makes no sense.

Regardless the BIG 12 is in competition with that conference and the others. The ACC is in far better position to make the playoffs.

A one loss ACC team will still have played in an ACC CCG more than likely, or be highly ranked. They are in no worse position than the BIG 12 s best right now, actually a bit ahead because they get the 13 th data point.

No ACC teams have shown interest in the Big Ten- other than Maryland.

Don't know if OU is interested in the Big Ten but you are nuts if you think the bIg Ten wouldn't overlook their AAU status if there were a chance they could land that brand and put down the BIG 12 for good.

 

[Buckaineer]

Here's the point, if they can't get the teams they want, then why go to 16? They aren't expanding just for the sake of expanding. They are doing it to get more money.

The Big Ten is a leader. They won't let others beat them to 16 . They don't just react as the BIG 12 does, they will be as proactive as they can be. If OU and Texas aren't available they won't sit around until 2027 waiting for ACC teams if a national power like Kansas basketball is available.

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

Why are you obsessed with the ACC. It has nothing to do with the BIG 12. The ACC won A championship two seasons ago and has participated both years of the playoff. They whipped OU last year and beat them this year again. They are backed by the most powerful sports network 100%. Their tv ratings have improved. Their recruiting is better than the BIG 12s now. How you look at that and think they aren't in a power position makes no sense.

Regardless the BIG 12 is in competition with that conference and the others. The ACC is in far better position to make the playoffs.

A one loss ACC team will still have played in an ACC CCG more than likely, or be highly ranked. They are in no worse position than the BIG 12 s best right now, actually a bit ahead because they get the 13 th data point.

No ACC teams have shown interest in the Big Ten- other than Maryland.

Don't know if OU is interested in the Big Ten but you are nuts if you think the bIg Ten wouldn't overlook their AAU status if there were a chance they could land that brand and put down the BIG 12 for good.

I agreed until you said the Big 10 would go outside of their values to accept Oklahoma. The Big 10 does not want nor do they need another top 10 football program. It is counter productive to add another very tough out for a conference championship. They knew what they were doing when they brought in Maryland, Rutgers and even Nebraska. Easy outs for the elite that meet their academic criteria.

 

[Buckaineer]

I agreed until you said the Big 10 would go outside of their values to accept Oklahoma. The Big 10 does not want nor do they need another top 10 football program. It is counter productive to add another very tough out for a conference championship. They knew what they were doing when they brought in Maryland, Rutgers and even Nebraska. Easy outs for the elite that meet their academic criteria.

Many in the Big Ten were very upset with the additions of Maryland and RU as football brands. OU is one of the top brands and that trumps everything else. Delaney has said while AAU is important it isn't the only thing that is important. It would be naive to think that brand wouldn't be favorable to a fairly weak western Big Ten. It would also be a new market for the BTN.

 

[Buckaineer]

Kansas paper write up on the looming decisions:

Excerpt:
There were opportunities aplenty to expand about four years ago with the likes of Louisville and Cincinnati available for the picking. Those two teams would have provided a natural rivalry and an important presence in the Ohio Valley region.

http://cjonline.com/blog-post/phil-anderson/2016-01-19/decision-time-big-12

 

[Buckaineer]

Many in the Big Ten were very upset with the additions of Maryland and RU as football brands. OU is one of the top brands and that trumps everything else. Delaney has said while AAU is important it isn't the only thing that is important. It would be naive to think that brand wouldn't be favorable to a fairly weak western Big Ten. It would also be a new market for the BTN.

The SEC and PAC 12 are also threats.

 

[Mountaineer Steve]

Why are you obsessed with the ACC. It has nothing to do with the BIG 12. The ACC won A championship two seasons ago and has participated both years of the playoff. They whipped OU last year and beat them this year again. They are backed by the most powerful sports network 100%. Their tv ratings have improved. Their recruiting is better than the BIG 12s now. How you look at that and think they aren't in a power position makes no sense.

Regardless the BIG 12 is in competition with that conference and the others. The ACC is in far better position to make the playoffs.

A one loss ACC team will still have played in an ACC CCG more than likely, or be highly ranked. They are in no worse position than the BIG 12 s best right now, actually a bit ahead because they get the 13 th data point.

No ACC teams have shown interest in the Big Ten- other than Maryland.

Don't know if OU is interested in the Big Ten but you are nuts if you think the bIg Ten wouldn't overlook their AAU status if there were a chance they could land that brand and put down the BIG 12 for good.

You are wrong, had UNC beaten Clemson in the CCG they would have been out of the playoff with just one loss

Had FSU lost 1 game the year before they would have been left out.

You are also wrong about no ACC teams showing interest in BIG, they will jump at the chance to make a move.

You are crazy if you think the BIG would take OU without an AAU status. Of all the wrong things you have said before this is by far the most out there. Had Nebraska lost their AAU status before the BIG10 invite they would still be in the BIG12.

Here are a couple of good sports stories you should read.

http://sportspolitico.com/2016/01/20/is-there-a-feud-between-the-acc-and-the-big-ten/
"
The first takeaway is that that the B1G showed a willingness to completely screw over the ACC. The second takeaway is that the B1G demonstrated the ability to work with the Big 12 to alleviate their concerns, but did not extend a similar hand to help the ACC. The last takeaway is that the B1G displayed an enormous show of power by taking what had previously been near unanimous support regarding total deregulation, and channeling that support into their own voting block against.

The B1G not only treated the ACC with complete brutality. They did it regarding an issue that was key to the ACC’s stability and long-term survival. They did it without attempting to make a more reasonable amendment that would prevent abuse, while still allowing the ACC to host a “no divisions” CCG. We normally don’t see tactics like these deployed between two power conferences unless one considers the other an enemy, or the existence of a feud. So somewhere down the line the ACC must have done something that enraged the Big Ten"

From this summer
http://www.btpowerhouse.com/2015/7/21/8911733/big-ten-expansion-would-be-beneficial-down-the-road

"Being part of the AAU is one of the main requirements of being in the Big Ten. Of course, the Notre Dame Fighting Irish have been a school that the Big Ten has tried to obtain for a long time and the Fighting Irish are not part of the AAU program. However, the Fighting Irish are the exception to the rule."

 

[Buckaineer]

AAU status is desired, not a mandated requirement:

Excerpt:

Big Ten Commissioner Jim Delany downplayed that Tuesday by saying: "I don't know about rankings in a magazine. I think AAU membership is an important part of who we are, an important aspect of what makes an institution a research institution that serves the public."

But Delany stopped short of saying it would be a requirement for entry — "I don't know what's mandatory because we are not there yet" — and no one believes it would matter in Notre Dame's case.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...ten-expansion-commissioner-jim-delany-rutgers

The Big Ten would accept OU, but again so would the PAC 12 and the SEC- which means OU has options. If you want to deny this- who was it that has approached OU and had ongoing discussions about moving? Other P5 conferences of course. The BIG 12 can't afford to be naive about that-change isn't a option it's a necessity.

As for the ACC being left out of playoffs--it's speculation only , not an absolute that UNC would have been left out with one loss this past year, or that FSU would have been left out with one loss the previous year. Besides, we know for a fact the BIG 12 was left out with one loss the year before, and OU was nearly dropped out this year in the final vote were it not for an extra ND or Stanford loss- so as much as I like the BIG 12, they have no advantage over the ACC or anyone else- unless they change. Rematch get two teams doesn't equate to advantage, it just equates to another loss for a top team.

Finally, everyone is in competition for four playoff spots. Delaney added a rule the BIG 12 didn't want either- requiring round robin play and two top teams rematch rather than the conference choosing it's champion. The rule stops the ACC but also isn't what the BIG 12 wanted which was the ability to be divisionless no matter the size. The ACC still can make the playoffs just the same as the Big Ten, and a higher percentage chance than the BIG 12.

 

[Mountaineer Steve]

AAU status is desired, not a mandated requirement:

Excerpt:

Big Ten Commissioner Jim Delany downplayed that Tuesday by saying: "I don't know about rankings in a magazine. I think AAU membership is an important part of who we are, an important aspect of what makes an institution a research institution that serves the public."

But Delany stopped short of saying it would be a requirement for entry — "I don't know what's mandatory because we are not there yet" — and no one believes it would matter in Notre Dame's case.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...ten-expansion-commissioner-jim-delany-rutgers.

Exactly ND is the ONLY repeat ONLY Non AAU program the BIG would take, and in case you have not noticed, OU is not ND.

And as Bowsly said the BIG12 did get exactly why they wanted which was the ability to have a 10 team CCG, without splitting into division. Saying otherwise is just trying to spend things to meet your objectives.

 

[Mountaineer Steve]

The SEC and PAC 12 are also threats.

Buck, I am curious what you expect to see coming out of BIG12 meeting in Feb? I believe they will come out without having votes for expansion, will commit to a 2017 10 team CCG game and once again Boren, will come out crying

 

[Buckaineer]

Buck, I am curious what you expect to see coming out of BIG12 meeting in Feb? I believe they will come out without having votes for expansion, will commit to a 2017 10 team CCG game and once again Boren, will come out crying

Since the BIG 12 never takes action, just talks about it, I expect that they will discuss the issues at hand and decide to have another meeting down the road to vote on decisions. Doubtful they'll actually decide anything expansion wise. They may come to some resolutions on the CCG but it won't be surprising if not.

If it looks as though no action will be taken on a comprehensive plan I would expect to hear from OU their displeasure

Ideally though they would come out of the meetings with a clear process laid out to implement a comprehensive plan to eliminate any disadvantage.

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

All it takes is for the man with the checkbook to say, "Enough is enough, this is what you are going to vote to do and none of you will lose a dime." At that point President Gee gives him a gold and blue bow-tie and proclaims him an honorary Mountaineer. Boren says, "We'll be heading west when the GOR is up!" and the man says, "Don't let the door hit you." And I will smile.

 

[Buckaineer]

Exactly ND is the ONLY repeat ONLY Non AAU program the BIG would take, and in case you have not noticed, OU is not ND.

And as Bowsly said the BIG12 did get exactly why they wanted which was the ability to have a 10 team CCG, without splitting into division. Saying otherwise is just trying to spend things to meet your objectives.

ND is just one non AAU theyd admit, OU is another.

As to the BIG 12 getting what they wanted
Bowlsby: "We ended up with a compromise we can live with"

Since when does compromise equal what they wanted?

 

[Mountaineer Steve]

ND is just one non AAU theyd admit, OU is another.

As to the BIG 12 getting what they wanted
Bowlsby: "We ended up with a compromise we can live with"

Since when does compromise equal what they wanted?

No Actually you are way off base here, the BIG does not want nor will they take OU as a non AAU school. Boren knows this and is why he is making in an aggressive plan to move the school in that direction. However OU, isn't even close to having the research grants needed to reach AAU status in the near future, and is estimated they can't reach it for 15+ years at best

And while OU has a fantastic program, common sense proves this isn't the driving factor for expansion. If it was the BIG would not have added pathetic, desperate, and broke programs like RU and Maryland. You and both agree that Future revenue is not coming from the likes of ESPN or Fox, but subscription based $$ from conference revenue. The population of OK is more than 1/2 that of schools on the eastern seaboard, that have schools with AAU status, (GA, VA, and NC) and is why they don't want or need OU. ND is the exception to the rule. They have such a large national following, that state population, or AAU, is not an issue.

The SEC financially and perceptually is much stronger conference. The PAC on the other hand is only perceptually stronger. Both of these conferences would love to have OU in the mix, however OU is not desperate like WV was when they had to join the B10, and may not want to be an outlier program.

 

[Buckaineer]

More from Bowlsby on compromise:

“Honestly our first choice would’ve been full deregulation,” Bowlsby said. “I understand why there was some opposition to it. In the end, I think we ended up with a compromise that we can live with, and it gives us a clear picture of what the rules are going to be going forward.”
http://www.mystatesman.com/news/spo...-green-light-for-conference-title-game/np4n9/

No, the conference didnt get exactly what it wanted.

 

[Buckaineer]

No Actually you are way off base here, the BIG does not want nor will they take OU as a non AAU school. Boren knows this and is why he is making in an aggressive plan to move the school in that direction. However OU, isn't even close to having the research grants needed to reach AAU status in the near future, and is estimated they can't reach it for 15+ years at best

And while OU has a fantastic program, common sense proves this isn't the driving factor for expansion. If it was the BIG would not have added pathetic, desperate, and broke programs like RU and Maryland. You and both agree that Future revenue is not coming from the likes of ESPN or Fox, but subscription based $$ from conference revenue. The population of OK is more than 1/2 that of schools on the eastern seaboard, that have schools with AAU status, (GA, VA, and NC) and is why they don't want or need OU. ND is the exception to the rule. They have such a large national following, that state population, or AAU, is not an issue.

The SEC financially and perceptually is much stronger conference. The PAC on the other hand is only perceptually stronger. Both of these conferences would love to have OU in the mix, however OU is not desperate like WV was when they had to join the B10, and may not want to be an outlier program.

You need to go back and read this story:
excerpt;
According to a story in the Omaha World-Herald this weekend, a group of five Big 12 schools made a pass at the Big Ten at the time to see if the Midwest-based league was interested in moving from 11 to 16 schools during the first major round of realignment. The Big Ten, according to the story, was interested, but the two sides couldn't agree on a revenue-sharing plan. Instead, Nebraska ended up making the leap on its own and a few other Big 12 schools peeled off in different directions.

"Was this a concrete proposal for realignment?" writes columnist Lee Barfknecht. "No. But it was much, much more than cocktail-napkin speculation."

The move could have brought Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas A&M and Iowa State into an intriguing West Division, one that would have enough heavy hitters to at least pull even to the East Division in competitive balance. When plans fell through, the Big Ten decided to court television markets on the eastern seaboard.

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/121087/big-ten-flirted-with-major-big-12-programs-in-2010

 

[Mountaineer Steve]

You need to go back and read this story:
excerpt;
According to a story in the Omaha World-Herald this weekend, a group of five Big 12 schools made a pass at the Big Ten at the time to see if the Midwest-based league was interested in moving from 11 to 16 schools during the first major round of realignment. The Big Ten, according to the story, was interested, but the two sides couldn't agree on a revenue-sharing plan. Instead, Nebraska ended up making the leap on its own and a few other Big 12 schools peeled off in different directions.

"Was this a concrete proposal for realignment?" writes columnist Lee Barfknecht. "No. But it was much, much more than cocktail-napkin speculation."

The move could have brought Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas A&M and Iowa State into an intriguing West Division, one that would have enough heavy hitters to at least pull even to the East Division in competitive balance. When plans fell through, the Big Ten decided to court television markets on the eastern seaboard.

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/121087/big-ten-flirted-with-major-big-12-programs-in-2010

You of all people should know talks take place all the time, and it does not mean squat. The B12 has been talking with UC, it does NOT mean the B12 thinks they are a good fit or will offer them entry. Hell they were in deep talks with FSU and Clemson and F'ed the pouch on that one.

You should also know there is no much being written by reporters and bloggers that you can find a story to meet a persons spin. I found a great two great stories the other day by prominent reports that say the same thing I am saying. The BIG does not want OU as long as they are not AAU schools. I know it goes against your BIG12 sky is falling mantra, but those are the facts. There are AAU schools out there that will bring in far more viewers than OU, and that is all that matters

 

[Buckaineer]

You of all people should know talks take place all the time, and it does not mean squat. The B12 has been talking with UC, it does NOT mean the B12 thinks they are a good fit or will offer them entry. Hell they were in deep talks with FSU and Clemson and F'ed the pouch on that one.

You should also know there is no much being written by reporters and bloggers that you can find a story to meet a persons spin. I found a great two great stories the other day by prominent reports that say the same thing I am saying. The BIG does not want OU as long as they are not AAU schools. I know it goes against your BIG12 sky is falling mantra, but those are the facts. There are AAU schools out there that will bring in far more viewers than OU, and that is all that matters

This was more than "talks" and reports are it broke down only on distribution of revenues. Had that not happened OU would have been a Big Ten member.

A question you need to ask yourself. If AAU status is MANDATORY for everyone but ND, why would the BigTen "do its homework" on OU? What would the point be because according to you they wouldn't even consider OU, yet OU nearly became a member. Notice also, Iowa State -another school you claimed the Big Ten would never consider, was in the mix.

 

[Buckaineer]

ESPNs Jake Trotter on the timeline most likely:

What are your thoughts on the potential for a Big 12 championship game? Will the Big 12 still expand?

JT: I will have a better answer to this question after the Big 12 presidents meet at the conference offices the first week of February. But if I had to speculate, my guess is that the conference championship game will come in the short term (next year), and expansion, the long term (within the next five years).

http://espn.go.com/blog/big12/post/...the-conference-recruiting-overratedunderrated

 

[Mountaineer Steve]

From Barry
http://newsok.com/article/5472760

You need to go back and read this story:
excerpt;
According to a story in the Omaha World-Herald this weekend, a group of five Big 12 schools made a pass at the Big Ten at the time to see if the Midwest-based league was interested in moving from 11 to 16 schools during the first major round of realignment. The Big Ten, according to the story, was interested, but the two sides couldn't agree on a revenue-sharing plan. Instead, Nebraska ended up making the leap on its own and a few other Big 12 schools peeled off in different directions.

"Was this a concrete proposal for realignment?" writes columnist Lee Barfknecht. "No. But it was much, much more than cocktail-napkin speculation."

The move could have brought Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas A&M and Iowa State into an intriguing West Division, one that would have enough heavy hitters to at least pull even to the East Division in competitive balance. When plans fell through, the Big Ten decided to court television markets on the eastern seaboard.

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/121087/big-ten-flirted-with-major-big-12-programs-in-2010

From Barry Tramel, who is a lot closer to the situation than you or me

"
WOULD OU BE INTERESTED IN THE BIG TEN AND VICE VERSA?

The Big Ten would love to add OU. But there’s a huge catch. The Big Ten only admits schools who are in the Association of American Universities. The AAU is a prestigious group of schools that was founded by 14 universities and now numbers 60. The organization’s goal is to develop institutional and national policies that promote strong academic research and scholarship. In other words, it’s a Superiority Complex Club. But it’s incredibly prestigious, and Boren has worked for years, long before conference realignment was a gleam in anyone’s eye, to get OU admitted to the AAU.

It’s difficult to see OU invited to the Big Ten without AAU membership. Nebraska was an AAU member when invited to the Big Ten but was recently voted out of the AAU because of some research issue I didn’t really understand.

If OU ever was invited to the Big Ten, the answer would almost surely be yes, even if the Big 12 was shining like the sun. Big Ten admission if an academic boon to any university, athletics completely aside.

http://newsok.com/article/5472760

 

[Mountaineer Steve]

This is interesting story from Arizona Daily Star

http://tucson.com/hansen-s-sunday-n...ion_7bb5fd9c-c21c-11e5-812f-678b8e4cc8e2.html

 

[Buckaineer]

This is interesting story from Arizona Daily Star

http://tucson.com/hansen-s-sunday-n...ion_7bb5fd9c-c21c-11e5-812f-678b8e4cc8e2.html

If nothing else the Pac's gor runs out just before the BIG 12 renegotiates a new contract.

The BIG 12 isn't going to wait until 2023.

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

I respect Jake Trotter' writing, opinions and sometimes his predictions. Occasionally he is dead on, other times close, and then the rest. I think he's in the ballpark. I have no inside knowledge, but after 63 years I have made some observations that usually hold true. Humor my use of an analogy:

A girl doesn't spend $1,000 of Daddy's money on a prom dress if she doesn't have a date. I have no idea where Ms. Bearcat is going, but she just finished spending $105 million on athletic facility upgrades from football to tennis, baseball, swimming, etc. You can bet she is about to go somewhere. The Big 12 or the ACC? I don't pretend to know. But she is not staying in the AAC. I don't care where she goes, but Stevie Wonder could see she's going somewhere.

If I take the time to research it, I'll bet I can find another girl spending big money getting ready for the same prom that is being kept secret. It's not the overt flirting and hints of leaving you have to worry about. It's the secret conversations behind closed doors. Isn't that how Oklahoma nearly ended up in the Big 10? We may never know how close Clemson and FSU actually came to being in the Big 12. But there was a hell of a lot of flirting going on until they got caught.