Expansion smoke?

[Buckaineer]

BIG 12 composition (expansion) committee:
Gordon Gee-president WVU
Ken Starr-president Baylor University
David Boren--President University of Oklahoma

Texas--an important component in BIG 12 expansion.

----and look whose been meeting with the president of the University of Houston (which just happened to retain its football coach unlike many other successful G5 programs):

Dec. 1 with Gordon Gee

From October 17th--with president of the university of Texas

From August 31-with Kenn Starr

 

[LowFatMilk]

Awesome...another team in the middle of the already established Big 12 footprint.

Adding this school would hurt WVU.

 

[wvpaper]

another texas team is a nightmare scenario for wvu. if it were houston, that's all the worse. at least smu has larry brown.

 

[wbgvwbgv]

No - A nightmare scenario ( for the entire conference )would be adding Marshall. And although expansion is highly unlikely, I can't see how adding Houston would hurt or help WVU.

 

[MDMtneer]

Want a team this side of the Miss river. However, Houston is qualified. Decent fan base, nice facility, on the field results, recruiting class ranked. Doubt our conf partners want another Tx team.

 

[LowFatMilk]

>.. And although expansion is highly unlikely, I can't see how adding Houston would hurt or help WVU.

You can't ? Suddenly WVU wouldn't (most likely) be playing every B12 team each season... ...and it's because of the likes of Houston.... ...I mean, that's laughable.

 

[WVUFanForever]

She's cute.

 

[dogeered_again]

She's cute.

You and I seem to evaluate these discussions in much the same manner. Carry on, my friend.

 

[TIREPUNK]

WVU might as well move to Texas.....

 

[Mountaineer Steve]

BIG 12 composition (expansion) committee:
Gordon Gee-president WVU
Ken Starr-president Baylor University
David Boren--President University of Oklahoma

Texas--an important component in BIG 12 expansion.

----and look whose been meeting with the president of the University of Houston (which just happened to retain its football coach unlike many other successful G5 programs):

Dec. 1 with Gordon Gee

From October 17th--with president of the university of Texas

From August 31-with Kenn Starr

Buck, I thought you slit your wrist after BIG12 expansion died this past week. Now that OU proved not having a CCG, hurts BIG12 each year and if fact is a help this year, BIG12 expansion is dead. Long live the 10 team conference.

 

[Buckaineer]

Buck, I thought you slit your wrist after BIG12 expansion died this past week. Now that OU proved not having a CCG, hurts BIG12 each year and if fact is a help this year, BIG12 expansion is dead. Long live the 10 team conference.

? You are more than a bit delusional aren't you?

Expansion hasn't died and OU isn't in the playoff yet. But as they hopefully and rightfully should be--you are mistaking one years result with the long term success of the conference. Seem to remember misguided posters such as yourself making the same claim about last year no? One years result? Now it matters but last year it didn't? Interesting.

As the leaders of the BIG 12 have stated over and over, expansion is not about just the playoffs-that would be the poorest of reasons to expand. Nothing I've ever stated runs counter to that. Expansion--as OU's president stated is about the long term success of the conference and one year in the playoff doesn't alter that reality. Especially true since up to about a week ago everyone was downrating the conference and talking about CCGs and the conference was beating itself up and knocking itself out of the playoffs because everyone has to play everyone else.

The situations that could make the conference expand haven't changed and neither has the likely timeframe as I've often stated-after the Big Ten gets a new contract.

But by all means, go ahead and think Gee and the others are at the University of Houston for a winter vacation.

 

[Mountaineer Steve]

? You are more than a bit delusional aren't you?

Expansion hasn't died and OU isn't in the playoff yet. But as they hopefully and rightfully should be--you are mistaking one years result with the long term success of the conference. Seem to remember misguided posters such as yourself making the same claim about last year no? One years result? Now it matters but last year it didn't? Interesting.

As the leaders of the BIG 12 have stated over and over, expansion is not about just the playoffs-that would be the poorest of reasons to expand. Nothing I've ever stated runs counter to that. Expansion--as OU's president stated is about the long term success of the conference and one year in the playoff doesn't alter that reality. Especially true since up to about a week ago everyone was downrating the conference and talking about CCGs and the conference was beating itself up and knocking itself out of the playoffs.

The situations that could make the conference expand haven't changed and neither has the likely timeframe as I've often stated-after the Big Ten gets a new contract.

Actually I am not taking the one year result as a long term, although you have taken that exact stance last year when TCU and Baylor were left out. It does prove what the BIG12 has been saying all along One year (last) does not make a trend, neither does this year.

Interesting you are changing your tune on BIG12 expansion not being about the playoffs since that had been your biggest point this entire last year OVER, AND OVER AND OVER, on TOS.

Unless the BIG raids the ACC, BIG12 expansion is dead, long live the 10 team conference.

 

[Buckaineer]

Actually I am not taking one year result as a long term, although you have taken that exact stance last year when TCU and Baylor were left out. It does prove what the BIG12 has been saying all along, last year does not make a trend, neither does this year.

Interesting you are changing your tune on BIG12 expansion not being about the playoffs since that had been your biggest point this entire last year OVER, AND OVER AND OVER, on TOS.

Unless the BIG raids the ACC, BIG12 expansion is dead, long live the 10 team conference.

You obviously never read anything I wrote. See if this rings a bell:

Future tv negotiations. Expanded footprint. More fans. Better recruiting and expanded recruiting grounds. Future revenue streams. More geographic cohesion. More and better press coverage of the conference. These are the things the leaders have mentioned and are the things I tried to discuss while people like you tried to derail every attempt at sensible discussion and instead tried to promote your fantasies as reality. Not sure what you are so afraid of or why you are chasing me around the internet for a subject you are so uninterested in. As I've always said--read what you want, don't read what you aren't interested in.

Like I said--everyone can see a photograph of the presidents of WVU, and Baylor meeting with the president of Houston above. If your fantasy view of the world makes you believe its all for a fall/winter vacation so be it.

As always, I'll continue discussing real things that are going on, while you project your absolute fantasies and spew meaningless babble.

 

[Cuyahoga Falls Eers]

Let's look at the record:

NOT having a championship game helped Oklahoma make the national playoffs this year.

HAVING a conference title game may knock Clemson and Alabama out of the playoffs.

The Big 12 is the ONLY conference where every team plays all the other teams. WVU could be in the Big 12 title game if it didn't play Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Bayor and TCU because the Mountaineers would be unbeaten. Does that make sense?


M ighty defense throttled Georgia Southern, 44-0

O utstanding defense obliterated Liberty, 41-17

U nilaterally decimated Maryland, 45-6, on defense and offense

N oxious offense & special teams against Oklahoma, 44-24

T urnovers lose to Oklahoma State, 33-26 in OT despite impressive comeback from 15-point deficit.

A wesome Baylor too much, 62-38.

I ncinerated by TCU, 40-10. Way too many mistakes, penalties, dropped passes.

N ifty rushing, defense take down Texas Tech, 31-26

E xcellent turnovers by defense against Texas, 38-20

E rectile dysfunctioned Kansas, 49-0

R emarkable defense skewered Iowa State, 30-6

S lap down Kansas State

 

[Mountaineer Steve]

You obviously never read anything I wrote. See if this rings a bell:

Future tv negotiations. Expanded footprint. More fans. Better recruiting and expanded recruiting grounds. Future revenue streams. More geographic cohesion. More and better press coverage of the conference. These are the things the leaders have mentioned and are the things I tried to discuss while people like you tried to derail every attempt at sensible discussion and instead tried to promote your fantasies as reality. Not sure what you are so afraid of or why you are chasing me around the internet for a subject you are so uninterested in. As I've always said--read what you want, don't read what you aren't interested in.

Like I said--everyone can see a photograph of the presidents of WVU, and Baylor meeting with the president of Houston above. If your fantasy view of the world makes you believe its all for a fall/winter vacation so be it.

As always, I'll continue discussing real things that are going on, while you project your absolute fantasies and spew meaningless babble.

you keep spewing expansion and it has not happened. So give us an estimated timeframe, 2016, 2017, 2020, maybe 2026 when TV contract comes into play. When expansion does not take place in 1 or 2 years are you going to be man enough to admit you were wrong??

 

[Buckaineer]

Several schools are a great example of the benefits of a larger conference.

Alabama--who have they played and beaten? They lost badly to a multi loss team that lost to Memphis.
They are getting the benefit of the doubt for playing a light conference schedule.

There's not a better example than Iowa or Clemson--Iowa hasn't played anyone and Clemson's claims to fame are one conference team in FSU and an OOC skim over ND.

Oklahoma State and TCU and Baylor won't both make a playoff related bowl now because they've beaten each other out of it--while in the Big Ten Ohio State only played one good team in conference (sorry but Michigan lost to every good team they played) and will likely get a major bowl--along with both Iowa and MSU--one of which will get a playoff berth.

The BIG 12 will continue to beat itself up yearly--sometimes it will work out, sometimes it won't. If Notre Dame had not lost the BIG 12 would be in trouble right now to a team that doesn't even have a chance to win a championship of a conference--because the BIG 12 wouldn't have had the advantage of playing that extra game to get an extra win like everyone else.

The playoff concerns worked out (hopefully) this year, but they aren't going away based on one years result.

 

[Buckaineer]

you keep spewing expansion and it has not happened. So give us an estimated timeframe, 2016, 2017, 2020, maybe 2026 when TV contract comes into play. When expansion does not take place in 1 or 2 years are you going to be man enough to admit you were wrong??

Better idea-stop stalking on the internet.

Better still-tell everyone what you are so afraid of and why?

 

[CaliforniaMountaineer]

The thought of adding Houston and Cincy makes me want to throw up.

 

[Buckaineer]

The thought of adding Houston and Cincy makes me want to throw up.

Why?

 

[Mountaineer Steve]

Better idea-stop stalking on the internet.

Better still-tell everyone what you are so afraid of and why?

Not stalking I post on all boards. Tell me why are you starting your shtick on this board now. Is it because you were banned from TOS?

Oh and BTW answer the question, how long will it go until you are man enough to admit your wrong? what are YOU afraid of

 

[Buckaineer]

Not stalking I post on all boards. Tell me why are you starting your shtick on this board now. Is it because you were banned from TOS?

Oh and BTW answer the question, how long will it go until you are man enough to admit your wrong? what are YOU afraid of

I am not banned from anything- I chose to leave a bunch of whining children such as yourself who don't want to talk about reality, just want to play fantasy games, derail threads and troll others.

I've discussed and will continue to discuss things the conference is doing--such as creating a composition committee, leaders meeting with the leaders of other schools for unkown reasons, being left out of the playoff, making the playoffs and real reasons why. There's no fear there, just an honest realization of where the conference will be after 2025 if no action is taken, and what that can mean for the school I cheer for.

Now answer the question--what are you so afraid of that you stalk me around the internet? You claim expansion is of no interest to you--so then what are you doing stalking me on an expansion thread? What is your fear? What is your motive in your actions? Answer the question.

 

[CaliforniaMountaineer]

1. I like playing the round robin schedule. 2. Neither add prestige as far as brand. 3. Don't believe either impress our tv partners which probably means the pie will cut resulting in less money to WVU. We can add them at any time. Just don't see the rush. I would rather see what happens with the ACC network and possible poaching by the Big Ten and/or SEC.

 

[Buckaineer]

1. I like playing the round robin schedule. 2. Neither add prestige as far as brand. 3. Don't believe either impress our tv partners which probably means the pie will cut resulting in less money to WVU. We can add them at any time. Just don't see the rush. I would rather see what happens with the ACC network and possible poaching by the Big Ten and/or SEC.

1.A round robin schedule cost Baylor and TCU a shot at the playoffs last year, nearly cost the conference again this year (had ND beaten Stanford it would have certainly) and will cost the conference an extra playoff related bowl this year.

2.There are no schools then that add "prestige as far as brand" coming to the BIG 12. Some can't accept this but it is the simple truth. Houston and Cincinnati are respected in their own right as much a multiple P5 teams as are some others.

3.The BIG 12 has contracts in place that guarantee pro rata shares if schools such as Houston and Cincinnati were added. There's nothing to "impress" --its written in the contracts.

4.The ACC myth is a fantasy that isn't ever going to happen during the BIG 12s current contracts which expire in 2025. First, the ACC has a grant of rights through 2027. Second the BIg Ten will negotiate next year for new tv contracts and isn't going to add anyone after that deal is done and if they were adding someone it would have to be a done deal now to get in under that contracts. Their projections of best case don't allow them to pay any P5 teams buyout, make them or their former conference whole financially from the grant of rights for the next decade plus, or provide the new schools with something more--all without causing huge losses to the existing Big Ten schools.

If the BIG 12 expands it will be with non P5 schools unless someone leaves the SEC and that just isn't going to happen and everyone knows it.

 

[skygusty]

The only expansion needed is from 4 teams in the playoff to 8 teams. Ooh lets add Rice University and SMU to the BIG 12 too!

 

[WVUFanForever]

It will never, ever happen....but I would love to see Nebraska back in the fold of the Big XII.

 

[Buckaineer]

The only expansion needed is from 4 teams in the playoff to 8 teams. Ooh lets add Rice University and SMU to the BIG 12 too!

The BIG 12 can't make the college football world expand to 8 teams in the playoffs. They can do what they can for their own success though. If you read direct quotes from Bowlsby, neither he nor the other leaders believe going above 4 makes sense--because of the physical demands and it would destroy the bowl system among other things.

Expansion isn't about just the playoffs--but then again if you dont have lots of success there over the next decade then that causes other problems.

 

[Buckaineer]

It will never, ever happen....but I would love to see Nebraska back in the fold of the Big XII.

That would be great-but they are gone and not coming back

 

[Cheers]

No - A nightmare scenario ( for the entire conference )would be adding Marshall. And although expansion is highly unlikely, I can't see how adding Houston would hurt or help WVU.

Agree. Houston would have little to no affect on WVU other than from a scheduling standpoint but every addition would have that affect. It's certainly not going to affect recruiting the state of Texas. We don't pull much from their anyway. I'm OK with Houston. I just never expected it would be another Texas school because it does nothing to improve our footprint. I doubt these photos are anything more than a coincidence but if true then let's add BYU and be done with it. Nice, competitive 12 Team Conference with a CCG. Everyone's happy.

 

[3xWVUenginEER]

Maybe she's just looking for an OLD SUGAR DADDY to help her get out of Houston. Some women are attracted to old guys in powerful positions. Look at Fred Thompson the late Senator from Tennessee. He got Lori Morgan in her orime and then landed an even younger one.

Anna Nicole went Necrophelia on the old Texas Billionaire.

Btw she is the hottest university president I've ever seen, but then again the only female college president I can compare is Donna Shalala who quite honestly makes dog $#!+ look attractive.

As for Houston in the Big XII, I don't see it. 4 Texas schools gonna say "OH Hell No!"

 

[Falcon1981]

Not going to happen. The Texas schools do not want another Texas school to dilute the recruit pool and money pool. Cinci is, well it is Cinci.
Neither team brings anything to the table and dilutes the payout. Never going to happen with the current contract.
Bringing those teams in changes the terms of the current contract and gives Texas and OU a way to leave with leaving their GOR.

 

[MikeRafone]

Houston's the fourth largest city in the country. When it comes time to re-up the conference TV package, those TV numbers could pay big dividends.

The Big 10 has Chicago. It's recently added the New York and the DC-Baltimore market. (ND has a chunk of Chicago, too.)

The PAC-10 has a lock on L.A.

Houston is the obvious market for the Big-12 to make a move on. You've got SWC history going back decades between UH and the Texas schools. If UH wants in, it would be foolish not to consider them. It makes a helluva lot more sense than BYU.

 

[topdecktiger]

Houston's the fourth largest city in the country. When it comes time to re-up the conference TV package, those TV numbers could pay big dividends.

The Big 10 has Chicago. It's recently added the New York and the DC-Baltimore market. (ND has a chunk of Chicago, too.)

The PAC-10 has a lock on L.A.

Houston is the obvious market for the Big-12 to make a move on. You've got SWC history going back decades between UH and the Texas schools. If UH wants in, it would be foolish not to consider them. It makes a helluva lot more sense than BYU.

The Big 12 already has the Houston market. The Big 12 already has the entire state just by having Texas.

 

[MikeRafone]

Spent much time in Texas? I have. Everyone that follows college football there isn't a UT fan. In fact UT is loathed in many parts of the state. A lot of sets across the state go off when the Horns come on.

Texas is a big place. Not everyone considers Austin and UT to be the center of the world. The Houston market is too big not to take a look at.

Of course, Gee could be in town lobbying for WVU to be in whatever they call the bowl in Houston these days. The timing is right.

 

[Buckaineer]

Not going to happen. The Texas schools do not want another Texas school to dilute the recruit pool and money pool. Cinci is, well it is Cinci.
Neither team brings anything to the table and dilutes the payout. Never going to happen with the current contract.
Bringing those teams in changes the terms of the current contract and gives Texas and OU a way to leave with leaving their GOR.

What do you mean when you make the claim "bringing those teams in changes the terms of the current contract and gives Texas and OU a way to leave with leaving their GOR".

None of that is remotely true. The BIG 12s contracts have language in them for expansion--they don't have to be redone. Adding teams doesn't relieve OU or UT of any grant of rights--they signed their media rights over to the conference for the duration of the contracts.

Finally, OUs Boren is ON the expansion committee and the primary factor in expanding the conference--how are you then concocting that expansion is means for OU to leave? OU doesn't want to leave the conference, they want to expand the conference and frankly nothing indicates Texas is slightly interested in leaving the conference either.

Why is it so important for some to always put that lie out there?

 

[Buckaineer]

Here's the text from Renu Khator (president of University of Houston) twitter page https://twitter.com/UHpres/media when speaking about Gee and Ken Starr

Gee:
Renu Khator ‏@UHpres Dec 1

Wonderful to have Gordon Gee, president of West Virginia University, on our campus.

So Gee specifically was ON the campus of Houston on December 1.

and Starr:
Renu Khator ‏@UHpres Aug 31

It was an honor to be with Baylor President Judge Starr and share the UH story.

So they weren't just randomly meeting, she was specifically "sharing the UH story" with Starr

 

[Falcon1981]

None of that is remotely true. The BIG 12s contracts have language in them for expansion--they don't have to be redone. Adding teams doesn't relieve OU or UT of any grant of rights--they signed their media rights over to the conference for the duration of the conference.

Ever hear that a contract is only worth the paper it is written on?
You ever have any experience in the legal system?
UT lawyers will shred the Big 12 and it's GOR if they try to diminish the value of the conference by adding these two losers.

 

[topdecktiger]

Spent much time in Texas? I have. Everyone that follows college football there isn't a UT fan. In fact UT is loathed in many parts of the state. A lot of sets across the state go off when the Horns come on.

Texas is a big place. Not everyone considers Austin and UT to be the center of the world. The Houston market is too big not to take a look at.

Of course, Gee could be in town lobbying for WVU to be in whatever they call the bowl in Houston these days. The timing is right.

The problem is, TV contracts don't work the way you think they do. It's not limited to an individual city where the school is located. The TV networks consider the surrounding areas (usually the state) to be the "footprint" of the school. Texas is a national brand that carries all the markets in the state of Texas. You mentioned that many people in Texas hate UT. Well, that's the point. Those fans will watch, if for nothing else to see Texas loose.

The Big 12 already gets paid for having the Houston market in its footprint. Whether you want to believe it or not, that's the truth. That's why all these other conferences are adding teams that expand the footprint. There is a reason the SEC takes Missouri, but won't even look at Florida St.

 

[Cheers]

You can't ? Suddenly WVU wouldn't (most likely) be playing every B12 team each season... ...and it's because of the likes of Houston.... ...I mean, that's laughable.

I believe his point is that it won't hurt recruiting or our finances. Adding any team, Houston or otherwise, will hurt our round robin schedule. If we have to bring in a team Houston is not a bad choice given its market size but as has been stated it doesn't expand our footprint.

 

[Mountaineer Steve]

I am not banned from anything- I chose to leave a bunch of whining children such as yourself who don't want to talk about reality, just want to play fantasy games, derail threads and troll others.

I've discussed and will continue to discuss things the conference is doing--such as creating a composition committee, leaders meeting with the leaders of other schools for unkown reasons, being left out of the playoff, making the playoffs and real reasons why. There's no fear there, just an honest realization of where the conference will be after 2025 if no action is taken, and what that can mean for the school I cheer for.

Now answer the question--what are you so afraid of that you stalk me around the internet? You claim expansion is of no interest to you--so then what are you doing stalking me on an expansion thread? What is your fear? What is your motive in your actions? Answer the question.

Wow you are a victim of major inflated self worth if you think you are important enough to stalk. We both have been posting on this board since 2001 so to say I am stalking is ludicrous.
I will be clear to answer your question, but I bet anyone you are too afraid the answer the question I have asked twice, now soon to be a third time after my answer.

1. I have never ever claimed expansion is of no interest to me. I want expansion but with the right teams and not with a bunch of crap teams that happen to put 1 or 2 good years together only to fall on their ASS. The previous two years UCF was the school of choice for many because they had several good years together. But UCF is no longer the flavor the month because they fell flat on their face this year. Now Memphis and Houston have a good year, and everyone jumps on that band wagon.

2. I am not at all afraid of expansion but I would rather stay at 10 teams and play a round robin then add crap teams where WVU is placed in a division like the ACC coastal or BIG10 west, where 1 loss and you are out. Why do you think UNC has just 1 loss and is ranked 10th behind a 2 loss FSU, ND, and Stanford. UNC could beat Clemson this week and they still won't make the CFP because their division sucks and they don't play anyone.

My hope for expansion is the BIG poaches ACC teams like GT, and UNC, leaving FSU And Clemson ready for a move and the BIG12 smart enough to pick them up. However I am not confident that when it comes to expansion the BIG12 is smart enough. If they were Those 2 teams would already be in the BIG12.

So I answered your questions, stop being afraid and answer mine.

You are so sure that expansion is coming and coming soon. Give me your general opinion when this well happen, 2016, 2017, 2020, beyond? How many years will it take for expansion not to occur before you are man enough to admit you were wrong? I bet you won't answer, but will change the subject thinking no one will notice you being a coward.

 

[Buckaineer]

None of that is remotely true. The BIG 12s contracts have language in them for expansion--they don't have to be redone. Adding teams doesn't relieve OU or UT of any grant of rights--they signed their media rights over to the conference for the duration of the conference.

Ever hear that a contract is only worth the paper it is written on?
You ever have any experience in the legal system?
UT lawyers will shred the Big 12 and it's GOR if they try to diminish the value of the conference by adding these two losers.

You make bold claims of what UT will do. Present evidence to back that up. What's that? You don't have ANY evidence? You are just talking (or writing) out of your @$$?? That's what everyone thought.

Texas isn't trying to leave the BIG 12 and expanding the conference won't make Texas leave. There is no detriment to Texas in expanding the conference and there's no benefit to Texas in leaving the conference. You seem to be mistaking UT and OU with the schools that left.

The grant of rights is a solid binding legal document that can't be "shredded". It could be litigated in court which would be extremely expensive and take years and likely result in a huge payment to the conference anyway--but then again what conference with a grant is going to want to try and destroy grants of rights? NONE. And the networks that pay the media rights certainly aren't going to violate contracts they have with conferences making them all null and void (and opening up the conferences to freely go elsewhere).

Deal with reality.