Does BC continue to do stay in P5?

[steeleer]

I know this sounds dumb with the amount of money involved, but do you see an outcome where BC steps down...especially when P5 teams have to pay athletes?

Honestly, they just have not been committed to winning sports since they entered the ACC.

P5 sports are going to get even more expensive soon.

 

[xgunnx]

BC went winless in the ACC in football and basketball. Really unusual for Boston College to not win at least a few conference games especially in football.

Once upon a time BC had very competitive teams in both Football and Basketball. The early 90's BC was a very strong football program.

 

[WVUFanForever]

Boston College has become the most irrelevant program in the P5.

 

[xgunnx]

Boston College has become the most irrelevant program in the P5.

Boston College might benefit from dropping down to a G5 conference like the MAC or C-USA. At least they might be able to win a conference game instead of being a complete joke.

 

[Charleston Mountie]

Boston College might benefit from dropping down to a G5 conference like the MAC or C-USA. At least they might be able to win a conference game instead of being a complete joke.

Some would say it is karma after the things they did before, during and after they left the Big East. They deserve more hell than they have gotten so far, so there is at least something to look forward too.

 

[MikeinVA]

They won't voluntarily step down. The money's the same whether they win or lose all games.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

The ACC would need to vote them out, and doing that depends on their bylaws.

I can't see any power conference team leaving by choice, and saying farewell to that paycheck.

That said, Boston College and Wake Forest can't be happy about the upcoming expenditures.

 

[MountaineerGuy]

I know this sounds dumb with the amount of money involved, but do you see an outcome where BC steps down...especially when P5 teams have to pay athletes?

Honestly, they just have not been committed to winning sports since they entered the ACC.

P5 sports are going to get even more expensive soon.

BC was one of THE ring leaders in keeping WVU out of the ACC because of perceived bad academics and the fact they look down on perceived toothless hillbillies........... Karma is a be-och and could NOT happen to a better group of stuck up Boston snobs........ BTW, I believe they JUST received R1 status at the same time as WVU........ So much for being an elite university in their own minds......

 

[TexasforevEER]

I doubt that BC gets voted out of the ACC. The winners don't care if BC loses every game. Some team must lose every game be it football or basketball or ice hockey.

 

[Round Hillbilly]

bc isn't going anywhere. they are the new welfare queen of the acc and are just happy receiving that paycheck no matter if they go 0 for forever or not. and the acc will be glad to have them because they "deliver" the boston tv market ha ha haha HAHAHAHAHAHAHA...ooohh, HAHAHAHAHAHA...millions upon millions of bostonians are tuning in every day HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. anyway, i despise them the most out of anyone that bailed on the big east. remember this from their AD DeFilippo?
"We always keep our television partners close to us," he said. "You don't get extra money for basketball. It's 85% football money. TV - ESPN - is the one who told us what to do. This was football; it had nothing to do with basketball.''
And then he backpedaled and retracted his comments - liar. bad-mouthed us and uconn among others, as if we needed bad-mouthed us...acc was never taking wvu anyway. destroyed a league in which bc was a founding member after pledging allegiance to the conference. jesuit principles my ass.

 

[eerdoc]

Some would say it is karma after the things they did before, during and after they left the Big East. They deserve more hell than they have gotten so far, so there is at least something to look forward too.

Nice to see their programs ROTTING.

 

[ThePunish-EER]

I know this sounds dumb with the amount of money involved, but do you see an outcome where BC steps down...especially when P5 teams have to pay athletes?

Honestly, they just have not been committed to winning sports since they entered the ACC.

P5 sports are going to get even more expensive soon.

of course they don't. Why give up that paycheck from the ACC in exchange for 1-2 million a year in a midmajor conference? And why would the ACC boot them out? It's about markets and this is Boston.

 

[hbeacheer]

They will never leave on their own. Bc is a hockey school and nothing more. May they continue to rot away on tobacco road.

 

[HurdyGurdyEer]

The only way BC leaves is if the ACC were to implode one way or the other. But then again .... they could be one of the teams left.

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

With less than 15,000 students including graduate school, the years when BC was a successful football team were something of an anomaly. In 2015 they managed 39,000 in attendance for FSU and 38,000 for ND. The remaining home games in 45,000 seat Alumni Stadium drew 30,000 or less, usually much less.

I realize the ACC took them for the TV market, but I would imagine their Nielson ratings were very low. I doubt the TV viewers were anymore enthused than those attending the games. That certainly does not help the ACC in their quest for a conference TV network. Financially, BC would have to be a black hole for the ACC as well as the broadcast networks.

 

[TexasforevEER]

Would the Big 12 be interested in BC if the ACC gives up on them? BC would make WVU a natural rival and bring the Boston Market to the Big.

 

[older gold]

BC will always be protected by Notre Dame.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

Would the Big 12 be interested in BC if the ACC gives up on them? BC would make WVU a natural rival and bring the Boston Market to the Big.

UConn is already available and provides the same benefits, plus great basketball.

The ACC wanted Cuse and UConn. BC blocked UCONN hard. Whatever political clout they had, they spent it and Pitt benefited. Then power shifted to Clemson/FSU and Louisville got the invite...imo, WVU would have gotten that spot.

 

[Charleston Mountie]

UConn is already available and provides the same benefits, plus great basketball.

The ACC wanted Cuse and UConn. BC blocked UCONN hard. Whatever political clout they had, they spent it and Pitt benefited. Then power shifted to Clemson/FSU and Louisville got the invite...imo, WVU would have gotten that spot.

Agreed.

But, I for one am glad the ACC did not find WVU to their liking as the Big-12 is a better place to be imo.

No one knows for certain who is in and who is out when conferences begin shifting again, but it is the general consensus that both the Big-12 and the ACC have some distance to make on the other three P5s. How things shake out is open to debate, but if the trends is followed, the ACC has some schools ripe for plucking. If that conference falls apart and the stronger members join with the Big-12, schools like BC and Wake Forest may well be demoted to G5 or whatever it comes to be known as by then.

 

[Orlaco]

Maybe the P5 should start considering trades.

Maybe a tough sell for the teams involved....but it's the only way (now) to make conferences logically/geographically organized.

Yes I know, never gonna happen.

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

Boston College does not qualify for consideration for inclusion into the Big 12. 20 million potential TV sets are irrelevant if no one is watching your games. An average of approximately 29k fans in a 45k stadium is not attractive either. Boston College is a small scale version of an unsuccessful Notre Dame and nothing more. A private Jesuit school with only 9,000 undergraduates on campus, it is roughly the size of Marshall but much less competitive athletically.

 

[Orlaco]

I don't watch anything SEC that's not on a major network.... ....yet I have not one...but 2 SEC network channels. I doubt much of anyone in my area (western PA) watches them either.

ESPN/ABC basically blackmailed my cable company (they sent an apology email to me) to make the channels part of the sports package. Point being...it's not only about who will actually view the channel.

 

[coalcountry52]

They won't voluntarily step down. The money's the same whether they win or lose all games.

That doesn't mean much when they're not breaking even

 

[Orlaco]

That doesn't mean much when they're not breaking even

A P5 team isn't breaking even ?

 

[xgunnx]

I don't watch anything SEC that's not on a major network.... ....yet I have not one...but 2 SEC network channels. I doubt much of anyone in my area (western PA) watches them either.

ESPN/ABC basically blackmailed my cable company (they sent an apology email to me) to make the channels part of the sports package. Point being...it's not only about who will actually view the channel.

Ive xfinity/comcast (Morgantown) and the package i have includes the BIG 10 conference network and a SEC channel.

I have watched a few BIG 10 games but i have not watched the SEC channel maybe once. Really makes me want a BIG 12 conference network hopefully that happens but I seriously doubt it will any time soon.

Your absolutely correct when you stated "It's not only about who will actually view the channel."

 

[Woody in Helvetia]

BC and WF can cut expenses it they have too to make the ACC cover their Athletic Budgets. But they will always be bottom feeders.

 

[JohnnyDrama388]

Big East will have a Renaissance in 20 years or so. Eventually logic will prevail, mark my words.

 

[Orlaco]

Ive xfinity/comcast (Morgantown) and the package i have includes the BIG 10 conference network and a SEC channel.

I have watched a few BIG 10 games but i have not watched the SEC channel maybe once. Really makes me want a BIG 12 conference network hopefully that happens but I seriously doubt it will any time soon.

Your absolutely correct when you stated "It's not only about who will actually view the channel."

It's weird.. ..my small local cable company was able to fight off the Big 10 network despite being near PSU (and now MD and Rutgers). I guess it's because the Big 10 has no real leverage using the threat to pull other major networks from their subscribers.

 

[MikeRafone]

Until the days of Jack Bicknell, BC played a weak football schedule with teams such as Boston University on the schedule yearly. When scholarship limits went into effect in the early 80's, B.C. was able to sell itself to New England recruits as the regional school. They had a nice twenty year run.

UConn goes D-1 in 2005 and B.C. is splitting the recruiting pie in New England with a state school. If a kid wants to enroll early to take advantage of spring practice he can pay his own way at a reasonable cost at UConn. At B.C. unless their folks have money, that's not happening. It's the reason B.C. used to complain about WVU and VPI taking props. It was a cost effective way of getting top players for the latter two schools. At B.C. taking props was nearly impossible due to the cost of attending school there.

If things do finally come to four sixteen team regional leagues in football, it wouldn't surprise me to see Wake, B.C., Vandy and possibly Northwestern left in the cold.

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

Until the days of Jack Bicknell, BC played a weak football schedule with teams such as Boston University on the schedule yearly. When scholarship limits went into effect in the early 80's, B.C. was able to sell itself to New England recruits as the regional school. They had a nice twenty year run.

UConn goes D-1 in 2005 and B.C. is splitting the recruiting pie in New England with a state school. If a kid wants to enroll early to take advantage of spring practice he can pay his own way at a reasonable cost at UConn. At B.C. unless their folks have money, that's not happening. It's the reason B.C. used to complain about WVU and VPI taking props. It was a cost effective way of getting top players for the latter two schools. At B.C. taking props was nearly impossible due to the cost of attending school there.

If things do finally come to four sixteen team regional leagues in football, it wouldn't surprise me to see Wake, B.C., Vandy and possibly Northwestern left in the cold.

That makes perfect sense to me.

 

[coalcountry52]

A P5 team isn't breaking even ?

Research athletic budgets. Not many are in the black.

 

[coalcountry52]

Until the days of Jack Bicknell, BC played a weak football schedule with teams such as Boston University on the schedule yearly. When scholarship limits went into effect in the early 80's, B.C. was able to sell itself to New England recruits as the regional school. They had a nice twenty year run.

UConn goes D-1 in 2005 and B.C. is splitting the recruiting pie in New England with a state school. If a kid wants to enroll early to take advantage of spring practice he can pay his own way at a reasonable cost at UConn. At B.C. unless their folks have money, that's not happening. It's the reason B.C. used to complain about WVU and VPI taking props. It was a cost effective way of getting top players for the latter two schools. At B.C. taking props was nearly impossible due to the cost of attending school there.

If things do finally come to four sixteen team regional leagues in football, it wouldn't surprise me to see Wake, B.C., Vandy and possibly Northwestern left in the cold.

I still think it goes in the other direction. Money is going to dwindle from TV revenue and it'll kill the incentive to build up superconferences. Ten very good fanbases that will pay to watch their teams and conference ala carte will be the real demand. Schools like BC and Wake will drop to G5 when it's realized no one watches them.

The only benefit a school like BC or Wake has is to be a cellar team that would be akin to an in-conference tune-up game. However, those schools' sucking can only be attributed to their respective decisions. BC canned their last good coach for interviewing elsewhere. Wake had one good season and has not made the investment necessary to compete.

 

[Orlaco]

Research athletic budgets. Not many are in the black.

No research needed. It just doesn't matter. The pay athletes make in the P5 is next to nothing compared to the income that comes from being a conference member..along with few other small perks athletes get . You don't (or shouldn't) fix financial problems by essentially going on welfare (dropping out of the Power5).

Any P5 team not breaking even (long term...because like WVU there can be years of investment) then they need to change management.... Dropping to a lower level with less income fixes nothing unless the school is going to eliminate sports that are mandatory from conference rules.

 

[topdecktiger]

With less than 15,000 students including graduate school, the years when BC was a successful football team were something of an anomaly. In 2015 they managed 39,000 in attendance for FSU and 38,000 for ND. The remaining home games in 45,000 seat Alumni Stadium drew 30,000 or less, usually much less.

I realize the ACC took them for the TV market, but I would imagine their Nielson ratings were very low. I doubt the TV viewers were anymore enthused than those attending the games. That certainly does not help the ACC in their quest for a conference TV network. Financially, BC would have to be a black hole for the ACC as well as the broadcast networks.

The thing is, low ratings in a big market can mean a bigger audience that high ratings in a small market. For example, Massachusetts has a population of ~6.7 million. Mississippi is ~2.9 million. If 50% of Mississippi watches a game, that's 1.4 million viewers. If only 25% of Massachusetts watches a game, that's 1.6 million people.

The other mistake people make is, it's not just about the home team. The attraction for BC is that other ACC games now get on in the Boston market, whereas they otherwise wouldn't. For example, a game like Florida St vs. Virginia. That game usually wouldn't be in the Boston market, but now it is. You are using Florida St to draw ratings, not BC.

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

I understand your logic but it only goes so far. What if only 5% of Massachusetts viewers watch a game? That's only 340,000 households. If hosting FSU in 2015 only draws an attendance of 39k to Alumni Stadium there is a problem with interest in your product. Compare that to USF drawing 65k in attendance for a game against WVU.

There is really no guessing or mystery regarding viewership, the broadcasters know how many TVs are tuning in to every event whether it's a sitcom or sporting event.

 

[Orlaco]

What if 0 % of people watch a game but pay $1 per month to have a channel (whether they want it or not) that shows it... ...does the conference collecting the money really care ?

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

They will when contracts expire. The B1G worked hard to promote it's games to cable companies via their network and it worked. TV broadcasts with low viewership get canceled all the time. The networks still decide which teams are on what channel and the time the game starts. After looking at the demographics and viewership ratings, ESPN put the brakes on the ACC Network. Schools like BC and Wake Forest are the reason. So yes, in the long run the conference does care.

 

[topdecktiger]

I understand your logic but it only goes so far. What if only 5% of Massachusetts viewers watch a game? That's only 340,000 households. If hosting FSU in 2015 only draws an attendance of 39k to Alumni Stadium there is a problem with interest in your product. Compare that to USF drawing 65k in attendance for a game against WVU.

There is really no guessing or mystery regarding viewership, the broadcasters know how many TVs are tuning in to every event whether it's a sitcom or sporting event.

You are focusing too much on BC. It's not about them. The point of having BC is to give a team like Florida St a platform to get into the Boston market, which they otherwise wouldn't have.

Regarding the % of viewers, it was only an estimate to illustrate a point. Mississippi wouldn't get 50% either. (Nobody gets that much, not even Alabama, Ohio St, etc.). What I was pointing out is that you can get half the percentage in a larger market, and still get an equal/bigger audience than a smaller market. Again, that's why teams like Rutgers and Colorado got chosen, because of their markets.

Also just for the record, Neilson does not rate games for: SEC Network, CBS Sports Network, Big Ten Network, Pac 12 network.

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

I'm sorry, I thought this thread was only about BC. I do get your point and I stand corrected regarding Nielson ratings, but the networks do keep track of the size of the audience of all broadcasts. My use of FSU in my illustration was to point out BC cannot sell out a 45k stadium regardless of who they play. Even Notre Dame in a neutral stadium only attracted 38k.

BC is in trouble as a power 5 team, along with a few others. Syracuse only sold 36,762 tickets for a 2015 home game against Clemson. The Carrier Dome seats 49,262. I am certainly not wanting to start a debate over teams that do not matter to me. I respect your viewpoint, but stand on my research. The extrapolation I see is why ESPN is stalling on establishing an ACC TV network. It's simply a matter of economics with a very watered down conference.

 

[Charleston Mountie]

What if 0 % of people watch a game but pay $1 per month to have a channel (whether they want it or not) that shows it... ...does the conference collecting the money really care ?

Cable companies, however, know exactly what every set is watching. They now down to the second when you tuned in, how long you stayed tuned and whether or not you channel surfed during the commercials. They know if you recorded it on Tivo. If they see a target number of their subscribers NOT watching a station, they then can bargain harshly with a provider in the next cycle. If they still retain that channel, they will eat into the cost they pay or get something else for a bargain as a part of the package.

ESPN demands that all carriers include it in their basic package at an eye-watering $7 dollars per month. Cable companies are now hitting subscribers with bandwidth fees while also reducing the allowable "free" bandwidth each month in case subscribers try to ala-carte their viewing choices by streaming on the web.

The conference networks are doomed in the present frame.

Because ESPN can not see the next technology choice in streaming its conference networks it will go all in with the BTN in the next round and the Big Ten will score a hefty take home. The cost of ESPN going out on that limb means that ACC hope of ever getting a network officially die that day. Only someone in rose-colored glasses believes there was ever any chance of ACCN or the payout if their isn't one. ESPN is going to give the ACC absolutely nothing for holding up the network except excuses.

The only hope the Big-12 has for a network is somehow rolling the LHN into one and as a Mountaineer I hope that never happens. A network provides a few million circa to each member and WVU makes 2-3 times now. Texas, of course makes 15 million from the LHN.

The real issue in all of this is that there are those that state an ACCN is the foundation of the ACC GoR and that without, the GoR is good intentions and little else. If that is how it ends up being, then schools like BC will not survive the sinking ship and will be washed up on a shore called AAC or CUSA or something just as secondary.

I can only hope so.

The funny thing is that BC has no options. They are not academically good enough for the Big Ten. They are too far north for the SEC and the Big-12 would take UConn before BC. That makes me feel nice.