Dana inherited a roster with 10 pros and-counting in 2011...
- Thread starter wvpaper
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Paper......................this may be all we need to know but...............I am sure you can provide more information. You know you know you an insider. Right?
I'm going to let everybody in on a little secret. All you need to know about WV football is that, regardless of coach, there will never be MNC on display at Mylan Puskar Stadium. Yes, it's true. Take it to the bank, five star lock it, do whatever you must, but only accept it. This is the only alternative. We can all now start learning to grow content with whoever the coach is because, in the end, it doesn't really matter - they will all fail to achieve the main goal of the sport. Embrace who we are. Embrace our reality. Embrace mediocrity. It is what this great state of West Virginia was built upon. There's no reason to be ashamed. It's in our blood. Mediocrity. Learn to like it. Learn to love it.
There over 70 scholarship players then, about 55 who contributed between then and now. You can LOOK at rhe 2011 roster.
Name the top 55 players Dana has recruited in the past 4 years who are still on the team and tell me how that makes for a deeper aand more talented roster. Count the number of plyers on scholarship on the roster now.
Repeating untrue excuses is a sign someone lacks factual informatio with which to defend
Name the top 55 players Dana has recruited in the past 4 years who are still on the team and tell me how that makes for a deeper aand more talented roster. Count the number of plyers on scholarship on the roster now.
Repeating untrue excuses is a sign someone lacks factual informatio with which to defend
lol, Otis doesnt remember we just had 4 guys drafted in the NFL 6 months ago and a few more signed in FA
My God! If we had a nickel for every inferiority comment clowns like you make we'd have enough $ to make the Mountaineer Athletic Club Revenue make Phil Knight and TBoone Pickens look like welfare queens. How pathetic can you be tide83? Being Realistic is a lame excuse for tolerating mediocrity.
wrong again. Stewart left the team with 55-60 players on scholarship. Holgorson currently has Wvu with slightly above 80 scholarship players. Remember, you can carry only 85. Last I looked, we were around 82-83. That is a more deep and talented roster.
We have plenty of depth and enough talent to win and win big. We've been giving games away the past 2 seasons by making dump mistakes, having a lack of discipline, turnovers to multiple to count and what at times appears to be very questionable play calling. That has been the theme and shows no signs of changing. Excluding the QB position Dana has improved the roster IMO....but for whatever reason he can't put the rest of it together.
and win big? This is a brutal conference. You think Baylor, Tcu, and the rest of the big 12 aren't getting big talent? We still have questions at qb. We aren't there YET. Be patient.
WVU is missing a talented QB. Hopefully Howard can throw off the jitters or whatever he has and stop making mistakes. If that happens and the RBs stop dropping the ball, the team could be very successful.
Don't know what is meant by questionable play calling. If the players executed the called plays, WVU would be successful.
The other side of the equation is that WVU is facing very good players on very good teams. Nearly everyone has the size, speed and raw talent advantage. Can people actually claim Oklahoma State didn't have better offensive and defensive players than anyone on WVU's roster? Clearly Baylor is at the top of its game with a top two team and Oklahoma isn't far behind. They just did to Texas Tech what they did also to WVU--because their roster is loaded with excellent players.
In round robin play you will play all these teams with equal and better talent and maybe more important the understanding of the intensity needed to win games against this level of competition.
Unfortunately its not easy to get recruits to WVU and the impact of negative recruiting that goes on on the message boards is not going to help anything.
Don't know what is meant by questionable play calling. If the players executed the called plays, WVU would be successful.
The other side of the equation is that WVU is facing very good players on very good teams. Nearly everyone has the size, speed and raw talent advantage. Can people actually claim Oklahoma State didn't have better offensive and defensive players than anyone on WVU's roster? Clearly Baylor is at the top of its game with a top two team and Oklahoma isn't far behind. They just did to Texas Tech what they did also to WVU--because their roster is loaded with excellent players.
In round robin play you will play all these teams with equal and better talent and maybe more important the understanding of the intensity needed to win games against this level of competition.
Unfortunately its not easy to get recruits to WVU and the impact of negative recruiting that goes on on the message boards is not going to help anything.
How many times you gonna say the same damn thing? lol You must be a hoot at parties.
Look at the games we've given away the past year and a half. Maybe winning big isn't the right word but winning more isn't a stretch. I'm not saying we should be winning the conference or be in the playoff but we could be winning 9 or more games and be a part of those conversations. The Big 12 is brutal and that's my point - as tough as it is we can compete....other than maybe Baylor this year we haven't been out talented the past year and a half. We've beat ourselves over and over again.
Again, there is a handy link on this site to the 2011 roster. There may have been 55-60 holdovers from the 2007-10 recruiting classes, but when you look at the roster including the 2011 class ( a number of whim redshirted and are still playing) there were over 70.
As I showed in another thread we now have 76 scholarship players who showed up on the signing day lists n this site; we mave a couple more who didd't join on signing day, but the overall numbers are not much different. It is Stupid with a capital S to first keep repeating lies when the facts are a click away and to even suggest the poor performance now has anything to do with anything but recruiting and coaching since Dana took over.
As I showed in another thread we now have 76 scholarship players who showed up on the signing day lists n this site; we mave a couple more who didd't join on signing day, but the overall numbers are not much different. It is Stupid with a capital S to first keep repeating lies when the facts are a click away and to even suggest the poor performance now has anything to do with anything but recruiting and coaching since Dana took over.
You do realize there were other teams on the other side with talented coaches and players right?
WVU didn't "give away" anything--it was taken from WVU and will continually be until WVU has players that won't allow that.
Negatively posting daily on one of the only public places that WVU recruits see isn't going to help in any way shape or form--but can hurt alot.
The problem the anti-Stew group have problems is understanding that our program was not a dumpster fire like most want to describe. I do think our scholarship numbers were low but I also think they were not as bad as some are letting on because it was being used by Ollie to provide cover for Dana. As we see now that added depth is not making a difference in wins.
The point everyone should agree on, is that our situation as of 2015 has absolutely nothing to do with Stewart. If people want to disagree with my characterization of Dana's performance as poor, that case can be credibly made. To a large degree one's favorite adjective is a matter of opinion. It's the stupid and false excuses that really irk me, especially when people keep repeating them when they are shown to be false.
I wouldn't argue strenuously with those who choose to label Dana's performance as mediocre rather than poor. So, if that's how you view his performance and you believe we're too poor and disadvantaged to expect more than mediocrity and you feel safer with the medioctity you know, so be it. No one will change those opinions.
I'll still hope those opinions represent the minority.
I wouldn't argue strenuously with those who choose to label Dana's performance as mediocre rather than poor. So, if that's how you view his performance and you believe we're too poor and disadvantaged to expect more than mediocrity and you feel safer with the medioctity you know, so be it. No one will change those opinions.
I'll still hope those opinions represent the minority.
The most important position in the Air Raid offense is the QB, and Dana inherited a roster with one QB on it................
one.
one.
no it really was a dumpster fire. You see, I was one of those telling everyone we were severely down on scholarship players before Stewart was let go. It was fact. I said we were doomed if we didn't get rid of him soon. We did thankfully. It just takes time to rebuild. Plus several players we had weren't good enough for the big 12. We had recruited for the big east beforehand.
you are wrong on the numbers. Kevin kinder and Greg hunter confirmed the numbers I quoted.
And he did that with Crest, Chugz, and Sills............... but the fact remains, which you've CHOSEN to gloss over, is depth was gutted at the position, and then again through attrition of Childress and Rawlins......... and WVU has no upperclassmen with experience at QB............. the main attribute of a successful Air Raid Offense.... Every single successful Air Raid-style offense has experienced depth at the QB spot.
The Bill Stewart era had zero plan for handling the Jeremy Johnson/Barry Brunetti departures, and once the Holgorsen hire was made, they simply neglected it completely as "not their problem" anymore.... Brian Athey? Really?
As I said, LOOK at the 2011 roster! It's widely available. If anyone "conmfirmed" 55-60 scholarship players they either cannot count or were being deliberately deceptive:
http://www.cfbstats.com/2011/team/768/roster.html
http://www.cfbstats.com/2011/team/768/roster.html
Oh, here. I went ahead and tallied the walk-ons and mid-season transfers from 2011 for you, so you couldn't hide behind those roster spots:
- Vecchio, Anthony
- Vance, Casey
- Tomasek, Ben
- Taylor, Josh
- Snodgrass, Chad
- Smith, Lawrence
- Shull, Matt
- Roberts, Vernard --->transferred midseason
- Roberts, Vance ----> transferred midseason
- Rietschlin, Ted
- Richardson, Sam
- Rader, Tyler
- Paskorz, Steve
- Nutter, Cody
- Nehlen, Ryan
- Moro, Matt
- Molinari, Michael
- Miller, Pete
- Milhouse, Willie
- Marable, William
- Majnaric, Nate
- Lusk, Trent
- Loy, Ian
- Lindamood, Matt
- Level, Cecil
- Lageman, J.B.
- Kovatch, Ricky
- Kindler, Nick
- Johnson, Trey ---> midseason trasnfer
- Izon, J.D.
- Horton, Clay
- Henn, Lucas
- Goldbaugh, Andrew
- Gerber, Eric
- Dorsey, Michael ---> midseason transfer
- Cooper, Jerry
- Contraguerro, Josh
- Cadwell, Nick
- Burdette, Alex
- Burchett, Michael
- Brown, Dustin
- Bittner, Hunter
- Bassler, John
- Arlia, Connor
- Alsien-Ogbebar, Soraya
I'm sure I missed one or two probably............ but that's 40+ guys out of a total 107 names on that 2011 roster you linked............ simple math says about 65 scholarship players.
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Dana had Geno for 2 years and 3 recruiting classes. Again, plenty of time to find another QB. The gibberish quoted above is why many of us believe your posts aren't serious. Your posts are like a wash machine stuck on spin cycle. Useless.
I want to be clear: I truly have no opinion on this subject at the moment, I don't know who or what is responsible for QB depth issues, and I don't really follow recruiting much.
I have 2 questions. First, could you please post that same type of QB recruiting list by year for WVU that you did yesterday for Briles? Second, is it your belief that QB production here would more closely resemble Texas Tech-style plug-and-play system guys once the Crest/Chugunov/Sills group are experienced upperclassmen? In other words, Keaton, if we spend the time waiting on them to be that first wave of true "Holgorsen Air Raid" QBs, could we then also expect TT-style QB results virtually every year beyond that moving forward?
Just curious.
TTU has had its own wave of QB issues since we joined the B12, but in a simplistic way, yes.
When Dana arrived, he had Jr Geno Smith and a recruit --- Brian Athey --- who he sent packing before school even began. He brought in Paul Millard as a backup built out of pure necessity, and then he got to work trying to built QB depth. He got his 4-star pocket passer in Ford Childress. 2012 Depth Chart: Sr, Soph, Fr............. starting to look like a regular Air Raid Depth Chart with a inking of another athletic arm in Rawlins on the way. Rawlins doesn't make it out of the spring because he knocks up his GF and moves home........ Now we have 2 QBs yet again. Seek transfer: Clint Trickett. Trickett gets recruited to come to WVU, but arrives late in the summer. Childress leaves before he's tossed out in 2013............. and we're back to 2 QBs yet again. Crest and Howard come in in 2014......... HS kid for the future and a JUCO to bridge the gap. Depth Chart is STRONG in 2014: Sr, Sr, Soph, Fr.... Millard wears a redshirt, but chooses to leave after Howard's impressive end-of-season campaign and the incoming arrival of 2 more quality QB recruits..............
But the point of that paragraph was to (hopefully) fully illustrate the pure turmoil and uphill battle this coaching staff has dealt with at the position.
WVU's QB recruiting since 2008 (year the Briles data started):
2008 - Coley White (WR)
2009 - Geno
2010 - Jeremy Johnson, Barry Brunetti................... both gone
2011 - Brian Athey (transfer), Paul Millard (transfer)
2012 - Ford Childress (transferred)
2013 - Chavas Rawlins (moved home)
2014 - Crest, Howard
2015 - Chugs, Sills (likely WR)
2016 - Saunders, Pratt (technically), and likely one more
Looking at 2014-2016, Yes........... I believe with actual QB depth and experience RETAINED by this staff, our QB issues disappear and we again get back to a plug-n-play style that we had with Rasheed/White/Brown.
But the fact is that when Geno left, our best option was STILL a RS freshman............ who should have been a backup one more year just like the depth charts of all successful Air Raid offenses. 2013 should have been 2010 or 2011 QB recruit's year............. and a legit recruit, not an 11th hour addition like Millard done simply for survival.
Honestly, Ford's real problem was that he was injured for the season during a bad game......... it's allowed his memory as a QB to be completely distorted among this fan base. The guy played 1 healthy game here as a Freshman.......... and broke a passing record. Then he goes out, plays bad, gets injured and the is left to the revision of "He was terrible" and "Horrible recruit".
Attrition at QB has taken a big toll on WVU Football, no doubt.......... but just like WVU Basketball, when the morons were calling for the coach's head 2 seasons ago....... once the bleeding on the roster stopped and stability resumed, progress happened......
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Oh they can't be. Ya see, if we aren't AT LEAST top 10 every year then we should fire the coach. Being real is NOT the same as accepting mediocrity. It's accepting that we need to improve and continue to build. If DH doesn't get a star QB in place within the next year or 2 he will be gone. Then as soon as we lose a game everyone can all call for the new coaches head. It happens every year in about 110 D1 programs around the country.
Thanks, Keaton. That is a pretty rough gap between Geno and 2014.
I remember seeing Brunetti at Ole Miss later. What were the circumstances of both his and Jeremy Johnson's departures?
The Roberts, Lindamood, Kovatch, Devon Brown, Taylor, Kindler, Bowers, Lagerman, Vance and Rader were all on scholarship in 2011
Johnson never really arrived......... He showed up and was gone before classes even started. Brunetti left to be closer to home for his ill mother I believe.
The difference in these two examples was that in 2008, when Briles arrived in Waco, his cupboard had 3 QBs inked to the current class, including RG3. He was gifted a Heisman winner, who he could lean on for 4 years while he build QB depth. The attrition bug hit Baylor during that time as well, but the stability of that initial class allowed Baylor to continue to roll with the punches.
lol.
The Roberts were, but left during the season.
Lindmood was awarded a scholarship because there were so many available after years of walking on
Same with Kovatch
I posted DUSTIN Brown.......... not Devin.
Josh Taylor was a mistake on my part (which if you read, I admitted I probably missed 1-2)
Bowers wasn't even ON THE LIST I POSTED
Lagerman, like Lindamood, as well as Vance and Tyler Rader were all walk ons awarded scholarships far into their walk-on careers out of pure availability.
That roster was so under-filled with scholarship athletes that they were handing out free rides like Halloween candy...
its true we only have one QB..sills is a WR...Crest is a RB/WR...Chugs according to statewide sprorts talk show sunday has a strong arm but very slow running (aka, jury still out).
How is that true?
Howard
Crest
Chuggs
and Dana said Sills will move back to QB at season's end.......
Come January, WVU will have 5 with the early enrollment of Cody Saunders
or did your lawyer friend give ya scoop?
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It is a fact that when Dana arrived to campus, there was one QB on WVU's roster............... one.
that includes walk ons............... Dana had to go find Mike Burchett and Ian Loy just to have some practice arms.......
that includes walk ons............... Dana had to go find Mike Burchett and Ian Loy just to have some practice arms.......
LOL, Sills is never going back to QB and Crest is a running back (have you seen his throwing motion?)
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