Dana has put together a very good coaching staff.

[wbgvwbgv]

Hopefully Holgorsen can keep all or most of current assistant coaches, but the success that WVU is having this year will probably lead to some of them getting better offers.

Coaching stability is a big factor for success.

 

[Soaring Eagle 74]

Hopefully Holgorsen can keep all or most of current assistant coaches, but the success that WVU is having this year will probably lead to some of them getting better offers.

Coaching stability is a big factor for success.

How can you say that? Just because special teams are playing better, the offensive line is playing better, the running backs are playing better, the defensive backs are playing better, and the D-line is playing better. It is just a coincidence that can't have anything thing to do with Dana. The anti-Dana propagandists will blow an O-ring over your post. Have fun today.

 

[NCNEER]

It seems that the WVU Football program in general is very stable right now. Being in the B12 and having the money to keep a solid staff in place is a little different than being in the Big East. Even when/if we do lose a current staff member we seem to now have a good sense of what type coach's we need and the bucks to get good replacements. But yea I love the coaching staff we have in place now. Upgrades are ongoing with the facilities so Holgs & the assistants are pretty much getting what they want and need to win with.

 

[wbgvwbgv]

How can you say that? Just because special teams are playing better, the offensive line is playing better, the running backs are playing better, the defensive backs are playing better, and the D-line is playing better. It is just a coincidence that can't have anything thing to do with Dana. The anti-Dana propagandists will blow an O-ring over your post. Have fun today.

The trolls and low information fans are still in mourning after 3 straight wins and have mostly been AWOL since Saturday. With 25% of power conference coaching staffs projected to be replaced by the end of the season, schools having success on the football field this year are going to have to be aggressive if they want to keep their coaching staffs. The ball is in Lyons' court and hopefully he acts sooner rather than later. Some coaches are going to have options and some schools pay a lot better than we do.

 

[KeatonsCorner]

Indeed Dana has.......... what this program needs is stability within the staff.

 

[VaultHunter]

Amazing. Some people actually understand there is more to success or failure than just blaming the head coach. Trolls and low infos completely ignore the fact Dana has lost an assistant every year he has been here. I really like this staff and hope they stay together. The only change maybe maybe hire a QB coach but not sure who you replace.

 

[HurdyGurdyEer]

I like Dana. Always have. I like his staff. I think it's great. I like the chances of this turning into a steady to very good football program. That said .... I'm still very disappointed Dana has not fielded a better quarterback. I only mention that to indicate that you can 1) see the upside, and 2) be critical of some things current.

But keeping his staff together would be a good thing.

 

[phoenixeer]

Hopefully Holgorsen can keep all or most of current assistant coaches, but the success that WVU is having this year will probably lead to some of them getting better offers.

Coaching stability is a big factor for success.

agree best since early Nehlen staffs

 

[There goes the Major]

Hopefully Holgorsen can keep all or most of current assistant coaches, but the success that WVU is having this year will probably lead to some of them getting better offers.

Coaching stability is a big factor for success.

Recruiting-wise, we're solid as a staff. Very solid. Not sold on our D-coordinator at all. And Galloway or Joe or whomever has been in charge of punt returners the past couple of years is beyond belief. But we are lucky to have Holgs as our O.C. The D staff does mesh better with the O staff as compared to the Casteel years. If we could have gotten more as a D.C, I would definitely agree.

 

[MountaineerWV]

The trolls and low information fans are still in mourning after 3 straight wins and have mostly been AWOL since Saturday. With 25% of power conference coaching staffs projected to be replaced by the end of the season, schools having success on the football field this year are going to have to be aggressive if they want to keep their coaching staffs. The ball is in Lyons' court and hopefully he acts sooner rather than later. Some coaches are going to have options and some schools pay a lot better than we do.

I'll bite.

1. You are toting the horn of a coach that still has lost an overwhelming amount of conference games since joining the Big 12.

2. Gibson has been BY FAR the best decision Holgerson has ever made.

3. Where are the QB recruits???? We are in year #5.....and nothing similar to a Geno style of QB, or close.

4. You have boasted about our special teams being better. I guess the biggest thing was the fact that we started using our KEY players on special teams (ex. Gibson covers kicks). But, where do we rank in punt return or kick return yards?


Finally, Holgorsen has kept the team together. I won't knock him for that. However, we are sitting at 6-4 and have beaten nobody other than those teams we were supposed to beat. If he wins the next two, my hat goes off to him.

 

[wbgvwbgv]

If you throw out one bad transitional year, WVU record in the Big 12 will actually be above .500 if we win our next two games. Amazing when you consider that this is only our 4th year in the conference. It was silly to think that WVU was going to dominate the Big 12 right away after joining. Dana is a very good coach, but he is no miracle worker. And you can't forget that he won a Big East Championship and BCS Bowl at WVU.

I think it would be wise to wait until Howard completes his first year before writing him off. And IMO the QB position is solid ( not great ) and will get even better next year. Dana developed Geno into an NFL QB and gave Trickett, who turned out to be a decent QB, a scholarship.

WVU's Special teams have been very good this year and that is not even disputable.

http://www.footballperspective.com/comparing-geno-smith-to-other-leach-holgorsen-quarterbacks/

 

[MountaineerWV]

If you throw out one bad transitional year, WVU record in the Big 12 will actually be above .500 if we win our next two games. Amazing when you consider that this is only our 4th year in the conference. It was silly to think that WVU was going to dominate the Big 12 right away after joining. Dana is a very good coach, but he is no miracle worker. And you can't forget that he won a Big East Championship and BCS Bowl at WVU.

I think it would be wise to wait until Howard completes his first year before writing him off. And IMO the QB position is solid ( not great ) and will get even better next year. Dana developed Geno into an NFL QB and gave Trickett, who turned out to be a decent QB, a scholarship.

WVU's Special teams have been very good this year and that is not even disputable.

http://www.footballperspective.com/comparing-geno-smith-to-other-leach-holgorsen-quarterbacks/

OK, provide statistics. Because otherwise, it's strictly opinion that our special teams are very good. I think it is more that we aren't getting destroyed on kickoffs and punt returns. However, we are still horrible on returning punts and kickoffs. Sorry, you can't use only one spectrum of special teams (defensive side) and not look at the other side. We should be better at returns, that's MY opinion.

Furthermore, you are misguided on other things. Most notably your "transition" year statement. Our first year in the Big 12 we were 4-5. It was the next year that we were 2-7. A "transition" year is one that follows a move (Big East to Big 12). He is also 1-2 in bowl games thus far.

And....be careful using the Big East to boast your claims. You and many others on here blast Stewart's accomplishments and even Rich Rod's because they coached in the "Big Least" (as you all say it). Can't have it both ways....can't call it weak and then try to pump up your coach by using the Big East record.

It's nice being devil's advocate. Personally, I don't think Holgerson is the answer. I think he's a good football coach, just not a good head football coach. I hope he proves me wrong. It's not like I'm cheering for WVU to lose. If he wins, we all win. I don't expect us to dominate the Big 12, but I do think we should be ahead of Kansas, Iowa State, Texas Tech, and K-State each year. We should be on par with Oklahoma State. And slightly behind Baylor and TCU. In my opinion, only Oklahoma and Texas should be above us (in normal years) because of their prowess and potential recruiting dominance.

 

[wbgvwbgv]

OK, provide statistics. Because otherwise, it's strictly opinion that our special teams are very good. I think it is more that we aren't getting destroyed on kickoffs and punt returns. However, we are still horrible on returning punts and kickoffs. Sorry, you can't use only one spectrum of special teams (defensive side) and not look at the other side. We should be better at returns, that's MY opinion.

Furthermore, you are misguided on other things. Most notably your "transition" year statement. Our first year in the Big 12 we were 4-5. It was the next year that we were 2-7. A "transition" year is one that follows a move (Big East to Big 12). He is also 1-2 in bowl games thus far.

And....be careful using the Big East to boast your claims. You and many others on here blast Stewart's accomplishments and even Rich Rod's because they coached in the "Big Least" (as you all say it). Can't have it both ways....can't call it weak and then try to pump up your coach by using the Big East record.

It's nice being devil's advocate. Personally, I don't think Holgerson is the answer. I think he's a good football coach, just not a good head football coach. I hope he proves me wrong. It's not like I'm cheering for WVU to lose. If he wins, we all win. I don't expect us to dominate the Big 12, but I do think we should be ahead of Kansas, Iowa State, Texas Tech, and K-State each year. We should be on par with Oklahoma State. And slightly behind Baylor and TCU. In my opinion, only Oklahoma and Texas should be above us (in normal years) because of their prowess and potential recruiting dominance.

Wrong - I think that most reasonable people would agree that it takes several years to transition to a new conference and not just one. Some fans are never going to give Holgorsen his due especially on a message board, but that can't change the fact that he won a championship, BCS bowl, and has beaten a number of highly ranked opponents.

The competition in the Big 12 was a big step up and IMO the program has made progress under Holgorsen. This team is bowl bound and could win out and finish at 8-4. A bowl win could even elevate this team into the top 25. WVU will finish ahead of Texas this year and would have to be in the top 10 to finish slightly behind Baylor as you suggested. There aren't automatic conference wins ( except for maybe Kansas ) or "set in stone" conference standings. Every Big 12 school has the resources, facilities, and fan support to be competitive and therefore all conference wins are good wins.

If Holgorsen isn't the answer as you claim, then who is? This is where the conversation for the most part ends. Instead of requesting statistics to confirm the obvious, how about providing a name with your answer. This should be entertaining and unlikely forthcoming.

 

[ThePunish-EER]

Wrong - I think that most reasonable people would agree that it takes several years to transition to a new conference and not just one. Some fans are never going to give Holgorsen his due especially on a message board, but that can't change the fact that he won a championship, BCS bowl, and has beaten a number of highly ranked opponents.

The competition in the Big 12 was a big step up and IMO the program has made progress under Holgorsen. This team is bowl bound and could win out and finish at 8-4. A bowl win could even elevate this team into the top 25. WVU will finish ahead of Texas this year and would have to be in the top 10 to finish slightly behind Baylor as you suggested. There aren't automatic conference wins ( except for maybe Kansas ) or "set in stone" conference standings. Every Big 12 school has the resources, facilities, and fan support to be competitive and therefore all conference wins are good wins.

If Holgorsen isn't the answer as you claim, then who is? This is where the conversation for the most part ends. Instead of requesting statistics to confirm the obvious, how about providing a name with your answer. This should be entertaining and unlikely forthcoming.

"um, um, um I think we should hire Terry Bowden as our head coach because he's from here and won't ever leave us. Um, um, um we should talk to Nehlen about helping Lyons make the hire."....Typical WV mouth breather.

 

[TexasforevEER]

Amazing. Some people actually understand there is more to success or failure than just blaming the head coach. Trolls and low infos completely ignore the fact Dana has lost an assistant every year he has been here. I really like this staff and hope they stay together. The only change maybe maybe hire a QB coach but not sure who you replace.

Let me tell you that losing an assistant or ten assistants has nothing to do with the Mountaineers 2015 record. The Mountaineers play in a very competitive conference and will be lucky to win a total of 8 games a year going forward.........................even if they added an overstock of highly compensated assistants. Warez

 

[mountiefan88]

If Holgs wins out he deserves to stay. K St will be tough up there. The bowl will probably not be against a pushover.

 

[MountaineerWV]

Wrong - I think that most reasonable people would agree that it takes several years to transition to a new conference and not just one. Some fans are never going to give Holgorsen his due especially on a message board, but that can't change the fact that he won a championship, BCS bowl, and has beaten a number of highly ranked opponents.

The competition in the Big 12 was a big step up and IMO the program has made progress under Holgorsen. This team is bowl bound and could win out and finish at 8-4. A bowl win could even elevate this team into the top 25. WVU will finish ahead of Texas this year and would have to be in the top 10 to finish slightly behind Baylor as you suggested. There aren't automatic conference wins ( except for maybe Kansas ) or "set in stone" conference standings. Every Big 12 school has the resources, facilities, and fan support to be competitive and therefore all conference wins are good wins.

If Holgorsen isn't the answer as you claim, then who is? This is where the conversation for the most part ends. Instead of requesting statistics to confirm the obvious, how about providing a name with your answer. This should be entertaining and unlikely forthcoming.

More nothing talk from you. You made your claim about how great our special teams were this year. Yet you failed to mention the OTHER SIDE of our special teams, the return side. They are still horrible. Yet you continue to focus on the "well if Holgerson isn't the answer then who is" comments. I'm not the AD. It's not my job to find a new candidate. But, if you are basing your argument about the Big 12 being great on the fact that you included Iowa State as a "difficult" win..........then I rest my case.

 

[ThePunish-EER]

More nothing talk from you. You made your claim about how great our special teams were this year. Yet you failed to mention the OTHER SIDE of our special teams, the return side. They are still horrible. Yet you continue to focus on the "well if Holgerson isn't the answer then who is" comments. I'm not the AD. It's not my job to find a new candidate. But, if you are basing your argument about the Big 12 being great on the fact that you included Iowa State as a "difficult" win..........then I rest my case.

time to put you knuckleheads to bed on this issue. If Holgorson were so horrible and should be fired, why is he one of the top candidates rumored for the Miami job? Coaches who need to be fired aren't being mentioned as top candidates elsewhere. Especially a blue blood school. Lol

 

[ColoradoMountaineer]

Let me tell you that losing an assistant or ten assistants has nothing to do with the Mountaineers 2015 record. The Mountaineers play in a very competitive conference and will be lucky to win a total of 8 games a year going forward.........................even if they added an overstock of highly compensated assistants. Warez

You claim that WVU will be lucky to win 8 games a year going forward. What exactly do you base that on? Why has Baylor be able to win more than 8 games in the last three seasons? why has TCU been able to win more than 8 games in the last 2 seasons

 

[ColoradoMountaineer]

time to put you knuckleheads to bed on this issue. If Holgorson were so horrible and should be fired, why is he one of the top candidates rumored for the Miami job? Coaches who need to be fired aren't being mentioned as top candidates elsewhere. Especially a blue blood school. Lol

The only one mentioning Holgorson for Miami is some hack booster. His name hasn't been mentioned by anyone else close to that program. If he was so great he would be on South Carolina or USC's list unlike Justin fuente who seems to be on everyone's wish list. Miami is not a high paying job its always been a stepping stone to the NFL. If Holgorson left for Miami it would be for less money and the feeling that his days at wvu are numbered

 

[MountaineerWV]

time to put you knuckleheads to bed on this issue. If Holgorson were so horrible and should be fired, why is he one of the top candidates rumored for the Miami job? Coaches who need to be fired aren't being mentioned as top candidates elsewhere. Especially a blue blood school. Lol

I never said he was a bad coach or "horrible". Go back, look. I actually said he's a good coach. Just not here, and not at this level. And as for Miami....haha....you living in the 90's? That school is messed up so bad they can't attract the big names. That's why he's being mentioned. If you don't realize that, then that's your fault.

 

[ThePunish-EER]

The only one mentioning Holgorson for Miami is some hack booster. His name hasn't been mentioned by anyone else close to that program. If he was so great he would be on South Carolina or USC's list unlike Justin fuente who seems to be on everyone's wish list. Miami is not a high paying job its always been a stepping stone to the NFL. If Holgorson left for Miami it would be for less money and the feeling that his days at wvu are numbered

oh really? A quick and simple google search shows Fox Sports lists Holgorson as a top 3 candidate for the Miami job. Lol.

And now Miami is a stepping stone school below WVU? Lol. Where do you idiots get this stuff? Funny the recruits feel differently as Miami is still hauling in top 10 classes

 

[ThePunish-EER]

I never said he was a bad coach or "horrible". Go back, look. I actually said he's a good coach. Just not here, and not at this level. And as for Miami....haha....you living in the 90's? That school is messed up so bad they can't attract the big names. That's why he's being mentioned. If you don't realize that, then that's your fault.

now Miami is in such dire straits, they would just take anyone they can? Nobody else wants the job? Lol

 

[MountaineerWV]

now Miami is in such dire straits, they would just take anyone they can? Nobody else wants the job? Lol

Show me where a top candidate is mentioned? Chip Kelly? Jimbo Fisher? Dabo Sweeney? Huh?........I'll wait.......

 

[ColoradoMountaineer]

oh really? A quick and simple google search shows Fox Sports lists Holgorson as a top 3 candidate for the Miami job. Lol.

And now Miami is a stepping stone school below WVU? Lol. Where do you idiots get this stuff? Funny the recruits feel differently as Miami is still hauling in top 10 classes

The source of the fox news articles is the same booster it came

oh really? A quick and simple google search shows Fox Sports lists Holgorson as a top 3 candidate for the Miami job. Lol.

And now Miami is a stepping stone school below WVU? Lol. Where do you idiots get this stuff? Funny the recruits feel differently as Miami is still hauling in top 10 classes

The source of those articles is the same Booster you idiot and name one coach in the last 20 years that hasn't gone on to the NFL who had success there. Do you actually take the time to see what Miami pays it coaches? It less than what Holgorson makes now. You can find articles not written by fox news that don't even mention Holgorsons name as a candidate

 

[wbgvwbgv]

More nothing talk from you. You made your claim about how great our special teams were this year. Yet you failed to mention the OTHER SIDE of our special teams, the return side. They are still horrible. Yet you continue to focus on the "well if Holgerson isn't the answer then who is" comments. I'm not the AD. It's not my job to find a new candidate. But, if you are basing your argument about the Big 12 being great on the fact that you included Iowa State as a "difficult" win..........then I rest my case.

Your case was rested before you ever made it. And as usual, another poster implying that there is this great magically head coach much better than Holgorsen who can win 6 or 7 conference games every year, recruit and develop the best QBs in the country, understands West Virginia, and is the answer to all of our prayers. And when you ask who might this be, the reply is always "it is not my job to hire him" but he is out there somewhere.

And for the completely clueless (from KUSports.com before the game):

3 . Kick coverage key

In a perfect world, Kansas would kick off a lot in this one, because a high number of kickoffs means a team is scoring points. Even if that happens, though, the Jayhawks have to be aware of the Mountaineers’ dynamic kick-return game. Led by Jovon Durante (24.9) and Shelton Gibson (30.2), WVU’s special-teams unit features three players who average 20 yards or more per kickoff return. The team’s average of 26.2 yards per return ranks first in the Big 12 and 11th nationally. WVU also is one of just three Big 12 teams to have returned a kickoff for a touchdown this season.

http://www2.kusports.com/news/2015/nov/21/gameday-breakdown-look-saturdays-kansas-west-virgi/

 

[MountaineerWV]

Your case was rested before you ever made it. And as usual, another poster implying that there is this great magically head coach much better than Holgorsen who can win 6 or 7 conference games every year, recruit and develop the best QBs in the country, understands West Virginia, and is the answer to all of our prayers. And when you ask who might this be, the reply is always "it is not my job to hire him" but he is out there somewhere.

And for the completely clueless (from KUSports.com before the game):

3 . Kick coverage key

In a perfect world, Kansas would kick off a lot in this one, because a high number of kickoffs means a team is scoring points. Even if that happens, though, the Jayhawks have to be aware of the Mountaineers’ dynamic kick-return game. Led by Jovon Durante (24.9) and Shelton Gibson (30.2), WVU’s special-teams unit features three players who average 20 yards or more per kickoff return. The team’s average of 26.2 yards per return ranks first in the Big 12 and 11th nationally. WVU also is one of just three Big 12 teams to have returned a kickoff for a touchdown this season.

http://www2.kusports.com/news/2015/nov/21/gameday-breakdown-look-saturdays-kansas-west-virgi/

OK....I'll slow it down.....P-U-N-T R-E-T-U-R-N.............has that problem been fixed since losing Tavon? And you all were giving Deforest credit last year for Lambert's FG success and late game kicks. Why haven't I heard about his problems this year? He's missed a few kicks, hasn't he? Must be Deforest's fault.....since he was given the credit last year.

 

[wbgvwbgv]

OK....I'll slow it down.....P-U-N-T R-E-T-U-R-N.............has that problem been fixed since losing Tavon? And you all were giving Deforest credit last year for Lambert's FG success and late game kicks. Why haven't I heard about his problems this year? He's missed a few kicks, hasn't he? Must be Deforest's fault.....since he was given the credit last year.

LMAO - what a moron.

 

[WB67hawk]

One reason his name is not coming up for other jobs is he has made it very clear to anyone that will actually listen that he is very happy here at WVU and wants to take this program to the top of the Big 12.

 

[MountaineerWV]

LMAO - what a moron.

Ok.....stats?????? Come on, defend your boy Deforest......punt return average......missed FG's......you gave him credit for the kicks last year.

 

[ThePunish-EER]

I never said he was a bad coach or "horrible". Go back, look. I actually said he's a good coach. Just not here, and not at this level. And as for Miami....haha....you living in the 90's? That school is messed up so bad they can't attract the big names. That's why he's being mentioned. If you don't realize that, then that's your fault.

mark richt named head coach of Miami today. There goes your statement, "they can't attract the big names". I guess you were wrong, "that's your fault" lol

 

[MountaineerWV]

mark richt named head coach of Miami today. There goes your statement, "they can't attract the big names". I guess you were wrong, "that's your fault" lol

Without Richt being fired, he wouldn't have went there. I stand by my statement because without the firing this would not have happened.

And, to be honest, Richt isn't a "big" name. I mean, he's a good coach, but what has he accomplished at Georgia? Seriously, how many SEC titles? I don't consider him "big time". But, he's a good coach and a good person. Good hire for Miami.

 

[ThePunish-EER]

Without Richt being fired, he wouldn't have went there. I stand by my statement because without the firing this would not have happened.

And, to be honest, Richt isn't a "big" name. I mean, he's a good coach, but what has he accomplished at Georgia? Seriously, how many SEC titles? I don't consider him "big time". But, he's a good coach and a good person. Good hire for Miami.

lol most would consider richt a big name. And yes, I agree. Good hire for Miami.

 

[Orlaco]

A coach and/or his assistants start 'approaching' the expectations at the time they signed their contracts and suddenly fans should start feeling like we got a good deal ?

We all want success... ...but that's not motivation enough to put lipstick on a pig.

 

[ThePunish-EER]

Without Richt being fired, he wouldn't have went there. I stand by my statement because without the firing this would not have happened.

And, to be honest, Richt isn't a "big" name. I mean, he's a good coach, but what has he accomplished at Georgia? Seriously, how many SEC titles? I don't consider him "big time". But, he's a good coach and a good person. Good hire for Miami.

mark richt
145-51
9-5 in bowls
2 SEC titles.

Possible HOF'er

 

[TexasforevEER]

You claim that WVU will be lucky to win 8 games a year going forward. What exactly do you base that on? Why has Baylor be able to win more than 8 games in the last three seasons? why has TCU been able to win more than 8 games in the last 2 seasons

Ok.......for the 2nd time........I base WV winning about 8 games a year going forward based on the competition in the Big 12. It has nothing to do with what the other teams do. A team could go undefeated one year but that doesn't mean they will do it every year. Some years WV could win 6 games and another year 10 games. This is true for all Big 12 members. At the same time some teams are winning 10 games others cannot win more than 4 games. Get it?

 

[ColoradoMountaineer]

Ok.......for the 2nd time........I base WV winning about 8 games a year going forward based on the competition in the Big 12. It has nothing to do with what the other teams do. A team could go undefeated one year but that doesn't mean that will do it every year. Some years WV could win 6 games and another year 10 games. This is true for all Big 12 members. At the same time some teams are winning 10 games others cannot win more than 4 games. Get it?

why are TCU and Baylor able to win 10 games and WVU can't? There recruiting classes are no different than wvu's what do they have that wvu doesn't?

 

[hbeacheer]

why are TCU and Baylor able to win 10 games and WVU can't? There recruiting classes are no different than wvu's what do they have that wvu doesn't?

If overall recruiting is close to Baylor and TCu then they are developing the qb position better than wvu

 

[wbgvwbgv]

why are TCU and Baylor able to win 10 games and WVU can't? There recruiting classes are no different than wvu's what do they have that wvu doesn't?

Well - WVU just got a team meeting room & a decent place to practice this year. I would say that TCU & Baylor have:

- better facilities including new stadiums
- better coaches (higher salaries & longer tenure)
- better recruits from their home state
- better financial support from alumni
- better play makers (at least a few)
- better luck the last few years

TCU & Baylor don't win 10 games every year. TCU was 4-8 in 2013 and Baylor was 7-5 in 2012. In 2011 and 2012, KSU had 10+ wins and if they lose tomorrow they will have a losing record in 2015.

 

[ThePunish-EER]

Both schools haven't won 10 games every year (just the last few years). They have great c


Well - WVU just got a team meeting room & a decent place to practice this year. I would say that TCU & Baylor have:

- better facilities including new stadiums
- better coaches (higher salaries & longer tenure)
- better recruits from their home state
- better financial support from alumni
- better play makers (at least a few)
- better luck the last few years

TCU & Baylor don't win 10 games every year. TCU was 4-8 in 2013 and Baylor was 7-5 in 2012. In 2011 and 2012, KSU had 10+ wins and if they lose tomorrow they will have a losing record in 2015.

its no use explaining to these knuckleheads.