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Can We Forget The ACC Fantasy?

I am not claiming but reporting what US News is publishing about all P-5 university rankings.

US News is a National Publication which most of the country (students/family members rely on) use in evaluating which schools they may want to apply to (Like it or Not).

You may not agree with the rankings but most other do.

Therefore, it would be incumbent upon WVU (IMHO) to do what they can to improve their standing in this National Ranking Publication.

A football analogy would be if the AP or Coaches Poll ranking came out and you would disagree with the assessment. It is your opinion but most of the country accepts the ranking.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!
Not sure who relies on "U.S. News" but that issue is about as valid as a swimsuit edition.

They are not licensed or credentialed in any way to evaluate education at any institution and their fake methodology has been highly criticized for its phoniness.

Administrators at real schools are not using US News to evaluate which schools they associate with.
 
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Then WVU's ranking in the US News publication is not a concern to you which is fine.

However, I think many/most University administrators are concerned where their school is ranked in this National Publication.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!
 
Then WVU's ranking in the US News publication is not a concern to you which is fine.

However, I think many/most University administrators are concerned where their school is ranked in this National Publication.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!
I'm sure if WVU was slipping cash to US News then their rankings would skyrocket. Short of that what can you possibly do when people who have never visited your state let alone your university are creating fake rankings based on things like "peer" evaluation when those presidents are handing off their form to office workers to complete--none of whom have ever visited your campus or taken one class?

Besides, these people seem more concerned with who you let in and how many than if they are getting an education or not.

WVU is an R1 research university at the highest level achievable and one of only a dozen or so with an on campus medical research facility as well.

US News is an opinionated rag.
 
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Here's a just as valid article discussing problems with US News phony rankings

excerpt:

While US News rankings of colleges purport to be highly accurate, they can be misleading in certain important respects. If you make decisions based purely on the US News college rankings, you might end up being miserable.

US News divides its college rankings into four different categories. The categories are based on the 2010 Basic Classification system developed by the Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching. This system has 12 categories of schools, but US News condenses them into four. ......



Schools Must Meet Their Criteria to Be Ranked​

In fact, there are roughly 150 colleges that are "unranked" within the four categories listed above. These schools may be unranked for a variety of reasons—these include:
  • Lack of regional accreditation
  • Fewer than 200 students enrolled
  • Do not use the SAT or ACT in admissions decisions
  • Not enough responses on the US News peer assessment survey........
On the website for US News, it states, "over time, the ranking model has put less emphasis on input measures of quality—which look at characteristics of the students, faculty and other resources going into the educational process—and more emphasis on output measures, which look at the results of the educational process, such as graduation and freshman retention rates."
There is no doubt that graduation rates are important, and they do say a lot about the quality of a college. However, they will tell you very little about whether a school is a nice place to spend four years, especially if the school is very academically rigorous and prestigious. Most students will graduate because they're very driven, but that doesn't tell you whether or not they enjoyed their time there.
The US News rankings are based on hard statistics and information gleaned from academic peer reviews about the quality of the school. While this is very useful in determining how favorably the school is viewed from the heights of the academic Ivory Tower, it isn't always the best metric for conducting your search process.
 
I'm sure if WVU was slipping cash to US News then their rankings would skyrocket. Short of that what can you possibly do when people who have never visited your state let alone your university are creating fake rankings based on things like "peer" evaluation when those presidents are handing off their form to office workers to complete--none of whom have ever visited your campus or taken one class?

Besides, these people seem more concerned with who you let in and how many than if they are getting an education or not.

WVU is an R1 research university at the highest level achievable and one of only a dozen or so with an on campus medical research facility as well.

US News is an opinionated rag.


You need to read US News criteria used for their ranking evaluation.

If you are happy with the published ranking then all is good.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!
 

Here's some of the points made in the just posted article:​

3. The college rankings formula can be gamed.


Plenty of universities have figured out how to crack the code to climb up the rankings ladder.
Northeastern University college ranking



Northeastern University is one of the schools that focused single-mindedly on improving their rankings. Two decades ago, Northeastern was considered an third-tier, blue-collar commuter school stuck with an unattractive campus.


But then a new college president took over and focused single mindedly on saving the institution by doing whatever was possible to boost its U.S. News ranking.


Six years ago, Boston Magazine explored this Cinderella tale and quoted the Northeastern president as saying, “There’s no question that the system invites gaming.”


U.S. News ranks Northeastern, which is now an extremely popular destination, as No. 40 in the coveted national university category. It is tied with such institutions as Tulane and College of William and Mary. A couple of decades ago it was ranked No. 162 and it was rare for anyone outside of Boston to have heard of it.


George Washington University was another struggling commuter school that successfully cracked the U.S. News college rankings code and began
George Washington University's college ranking
attracting affluent students who could pay higher prices for a bachelor’s degree and, in turn, attract even more high-income teenagers.


Here is an article from Washington Monthly about how ranking manipulation catapulted GWU in the rankings. It’s now ranked No. 70 in the national university category.


4. Popularity is a big ratings factor.


A school’s reputation among the right people will significantly impact it’s U.S. News ranking.


In annual surveys, three administrators from the offices of president, provost and admission at each school in the national university category, for instance, must assess what they think about all their peers on a one-to-five grading scale. (One is marginal and five is distinguished.)


Here, however, is the dilemma:


What do administrators at UCLA, Johns Hopkins, University of Tulsa and Kansas State know about what’s going on at Brandeis, Case Western Reserve, Virginia Tech and University of Missouri (my alma mater), much less 300 other schools in the national university category?

6. Rankings encourage colleges to favor affluent students.


US News awards schools which generate higher test scores and grade point averages for their incoming freshmen class, which favors rich students.


This focus on selectivity has been a boon for affluent high school students, who tend to enjoy better academic profiles. These teens can afford expensive test-prep courses and are more likely to have attended schools with stronger academic offerings. There is a strong positive correlation between standardized test scores and family income.

9. Rankings encourage admission tricks.


For instance, US News’ algorithm favors schools that spurn more students. To increase their rejection rates, schools will court students through marketing materials and social media that they have no intention of accepting.


Here’s another trick: some institutions make it easy for students to apply via streamlined online applications, which are referred to in the industry as “fast apps.” Schools use this strategy to increase the size of their student body, as well as bump up their rejection rates.

10. Rankings don’t measure what’s important.


One of the perverse aspects about the rankings is that turning out thoughtful, articulate young men and women, who can write cogently and think critically won’t budge a school’s ranking up even one spot. Curiously enough, U.S. News doesn’t even attempt to measure the type of learning going on at schools.


In reality, the methodology fueling the rankings are a collection of subjective measurements that students and families are supposed to rely upon to pinpoint the schools doing the best job of educating undergraduates. U.S. News relies on proxies for educational quality, but these proxies are dubious at best.

11. Rankings encourage cheating.


Rankings have become such a high-stakes game that some schools send false data or have acted unethically. And I suspect that most of the schools that are manipulating their figures have never been caught. Those that have been outed in past years include Claremont McKenna, U.S. Naval Academy, Baylor University, Emory University.

13. Don’t believe the numbers.


You should not believe that a college ranked No. 1 or 19th or 73rd is better than peers ranked 6th or 42nd or 95th best. I’ve seen too many parents make terrible financial sacrifices to send their kids to rankings darlings when it was completely unnecessary.
 
I think West Virginia would be a good addition to the ACC.

However, I think the Academic Side has been somewhat of an obstacle to some schools voting for WVU.

Just as WVU works to improve their Athletic accomplishments, they should also work to improve their Academic standing (IMHO).

US News (2022) undergraduate ranking of all P-5 Universities:

6 Stanford
9 Duke
9 Northwestern
14 Vanderbilt
20 UCLA
22 Cal-Berkeley
23 Michigan
25 Virginia
27 USC
28 North Carolina
28 Wake Forest
28 Florida
36 Boston College
38 Georgia Tech
38 Texas
42 Wisconsin
47 Illinois
48 Georgia
49 Ohio State
49 Purdue
55 Miami
55 Florida State
59 Pitt
59 Syracuse
59 Maryland
59 Washington
63 Penn State
63 Rutgers
68 Minnesota
68 Indiana
68 Texas a&m
75 Clemson
75 Baylor
75 Virginia Tech
79 NC State
83 Iowa
83 Michigan State
83 TCU
99 Colorado
103 Arizona
103 Tennessee
117 Arizona State
117 South Carolina
122 Missouri
122 Iowa State
122 Kansas
127 Kentucky
127 Oklahoma
136 Nebraska
148 Alabama
162 Oregon State
162 Kansas State
172 LSU
179 Washington State
187 Louisville
196 Mississippi State
213 Texas Tech
249 West Virginia

Do you believe WVU should have a plan to improve WVU's academics.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!
I’ve been saying this for weeks. In light of the resources available, our ranking is criminally negligent.
 
You may actually be the biggest homer on this site. You’ve been left behind pal.
Hardly a homer. Ask the SEC folks if they are concerned. It would be a resounding yes. Gee is a few years away from retirement. He gives zero shits right now. He has no one to impress and is incredibly stubborn. He would be fine being the one opposition vote if needed.
 
If the rankings don't mean all that much, then doing something or many somethings to increase that ranking shouldn't matter that much either.

In education, from your elementary school all the way up to university, the quality of the school is always based on perception - not reality. In education, your perception is your reality.

WVU's perception is terrible. In virtually every measure it fails to live up to standard. It needs to take steps to change that perception immediately. If that means playing along with a dishonest system - go for it! If it means gaming the system in whatever way - go for it!

If a person's WVU degree makes them look less in the eyes of an employer, no matter what that kid did to accomplish that diploma, then the harm is solely on the kid. WVU should do whatever it takes to make sure that never happens.
 
If the rankings don't mean all that much, then doing something or many somethings to increase that ranking shouldn't matter that much either.

In education, from your elementary school all the way up to university, the quality of the school is always based on perception - not reality. In education, your perception is your reality.

WVU's perception is terrible. In virtually every measure it fails to live up to standard. It needs to take steps to change that perception immediately. If that means playing along with a dishonest system - go for it! If it means gaming the system in whatever way - go for it!

If a person's WVU degree makes them look less in the eyes of an employer, no matter what that kid did to accomplish that diploma, then the harm is solely on the kid. WVU should do whatever it takes to make sure that never happens.
By your commentary it is clear you do not understand the West Virginia educational system or why WVU ranks the way it does. Rather than being educated by a lowly, knuckle dragging, mouth breather, hoping to be an extra in the next Wrong Turn movie, I will let you, a man so obviously my intellectual superior, figure out what has gone wrong with West Virginia's educational system. I eagerly await your enlightened reply.
 
Which would you like me to address first - the public school system or the higher education side?

Let's begin with the public school system shall we?

Using any measurement you choose, from standardized testing to national tests, WV ranks near the bottom. Norm-referenced or criterion-referenced it doesn't matter. WV schools, comparatively speaking are awful.

Now, the big question of course is why? There isn't one answer. If that was the case the fix would be obvious. Instead, I suppose, there are a multitude of reasons.

First, I'll begin with the idea that education begins at home. By several measures, WV ranks as the least educated state in the country. There are less college graduates living in WV than any other state in America. This I believe is due to the fact there are a severe lack of higher-paying jobs here than any other state. Our "best and brightest" must move out of state to find those jobs and have been doing so for a few generations now. What's left are the lesser educated who by nature stress getting an education as a means of upper mobility. I could go on here about the lack of books in homes and lots more but this is enough for this idea for you to get the idea.

Second, let's look at their teachers. Teacher colleges are putting out fewer qualified candidates than ever before. The best graduates leave the state for higher-paying jobs in neighboring states. The not-so-good ones get hired here because they are not competitive enough to get jobs in other states and school systems are so desperate for people they'll hire virtually anyone. If you don't believe me take a gander over to your local county BOE page for the job openings that still haven't been filled or you can go to the state BOE to get similar results. Because of the lack of higher paying jobs in this state, the tax base is lower and, as a result, teacher pay that comes out of it is less competitive than that of neighboring states. I could go on and on here but that's enough for now...

Third, because WV has been such a strong union state, especially in the education system with the WVEA and WVAFT, the ability to get rid of poor teachers is almost nonexistent. Unless the teacher physically or sexually assaults a child (often multiple times) it isn't worth the costs in legal fees of local school systems to fight against the union, often for months or years, to get rid of that teacher. Those unions are there to protect the teacher, not the kids, no matter what they may claim.

So, to wrap up, the combination of poor parenting, poor teachers, and a unionized state that protects them have combined to make the students of this state some of the least educated in the country.
 
Now on to the higher education system.

Rather than write another long-winded response I'll let you do a little research so you can draw your own conclusions.

First, go to USNWR or any other "ranking" system you want. We'll both agree that some of the qualifications are simply bunk. But, there are some that are telling...

For one, compare the number of incoming freshmen with those that graduate 4 or 5 years later. Nearly every school you can think of, except for the "elite", will have a nearly 50% dropout/failure rate, give or take. There are a whole host of reasons that apply here and they're nearly universal across the spectrum. However, if that number is dramatically different, say a 25% graduation rate one could conclude that the school allows in anyone with a checkbook regardless of whether they are ready or not. On the other hand, a high graduation rate would indicate the coursework is too easy (and essentially is basically a community college) and anyone could pass. See where WVU falls on the spectrum compared to others colleges near it.

Maybe WVU needs to become more selective? Maybe not? Let the evidence guide you...

Second, compare the hiring rate of WVU graduates to those of neighboring universities. This will tell you how much employers value a WVU diploma versus those of other universities. How many WVU graduates are working in the ______________ field from which they graduated versus working in a Starbucks slinging coffee because they can't find a job in their field.

There are some more but these are a good start...
 
With B12 adding a few cupcakes to the leftovers, can we finally drop the fantasy of joining the ACC?

The ACC was not interested in WVU 30 years ago, 20 years ago, 10 years ago, or now. The ACC does NOT want WVU. Never did.

WVU is just like Cincy, Iowa State, and KSU. WVU is nothing like UVA, Duke, UNC, Wake, etc.
Thank God for that! A bunch of arrogant, self important, self righteous assholes. If they are now interested as they were when we joined the Big 12, (Yes they were) we should in the long run tell them to go f**k themselves. In 5 years the B12 will be a superior conference. Either way we take a pay cut.
 
By your commentary it is clear you do not understand the West Virginia educational system or why WVU ranks the way it does. Rather than being educated by a lowly, knuckle dragging, mouth breather, hoping to be an extra in the next Wrong Turn movie, I will let you, a man so obviously my intellectual superior, figure out what has gone wrong with West Virginia's educational system. I eagerly await your enlightened reply.
May I offer an amicus curiae to the court of opinion? WVU cannot rise in the rankings that include graduation rates because it is against the law.

Along with the Promise Scholarship came a requirement that WVU admit ANY state student that graduates high school. A noble cause indeed, but your one year dropout rates skyrocket. You live with your priorities, whatever they are.
 
Which would you like me to address first - the public school system or the higher education side?

Let's begin with the public school system shall we?

Using any measurement you choose, from standardized testing to national tests, WV ranks near the bottom. Norm-referenced or criterion-referenced it doesn't matter. WV schools, comparatively speaking are awful.

Now, the big question of course is why? There isn't one answer. If that was the case the fix would be obvious. Instead, I suppose, there are a multitude of reasons.

First, I'll begin with the idea that education begins at home. By several measures, WV ranks as the least educated state in the country. There are less college graduates living in WV than any other state in America. This I believe is due to the fact there are a severe lack of higher-paying jobs here than any other state. Our "best and brightest" must move out of state to find those jobs and have been doing so for a few generations now. What's left are the lesser educated who by nature stress getting an education as a means of upper mobility. I could go on here about the lack of books in homes and lots more but this is enough for this idea for you to get the idea.

Second, let's look at their teachers. Teacher colleges are putting out fewer qualified candidates than ever before. The best graduates leave the state for higher-paying jobs in neighboring states. The not-so-good ones get hired here because they are not competitive enough to get jobs in other states and school systems are so desperate for people they'll hire virtually anyone. If you don't believe me take a gander over to your local county BOE page for the job openings that still haven't been filled or you can go to the state BOE to get similar results. Because of the lack of higher paying jobs in this state, the tax base is lower and, as a result, teacher pay that comes out of it is less competitive than that of neighboring states. I could go on and on here but that's enough for now...

Third, because WV has been such a strong union state, especially in the education system with the WVEA and WVAFT, the ability to get rid of poor teachers is almost nonexistent. Unless the teacher physically or sexually assaults a child (often multiple times) it isn't worth the costs in legal fees of local school systems to fight against the union, often for months or years, to get rid of that teacher. Those unions are there to protect the teacher, not the kids, no matter what they may claim.

So, to wrap up, the combination of poor parenting, poor teachers, and a unionized state that protects them have combined to make the students of this state some of the least educated in the country.
What an ........
 
Why would WVU want in the ACC. Every old Big East team that joined the ACC died because that conference kills football. Both Miami and VT used to be in the national conversation but as soon as both moved to the ACC, all you hear are crickets. FSU used to be a power house, but they died along time ago and no matter how much they get pumped every year in the pre-season they never stay the course. Clemson? They have had a good run but they are probably at the twilight of that run - no one stays on top forever. If they collapse into FSU level performance, who will be left for the ACC? No one, that is who. Why would WVU want to be No One?
People want to go to the acc because at the moment it is more stable than the Big 12. There are also rivalries and much shorter commutes for fans who want to go out on the road and watch the team play. When it comes to teams switching conferences outside of the obvious financial benefits how many actually performed better?
 
May I offer an amicus curiae to the court of opinion? WVU cannot rise in the rankings that include graduation rates because it is against the law.

Along with the Promise Scholarship came a requirement that WVU admit ANY state student that graduates high school. A noble cause indeed, but your one year dropout rates skyrocket. You live with your priorities, whatever they are.

Maybe, that is the conundrum West Virginia faces.

Accepting students with low (SAT/ACT, GPA scores, Study Skills, Stem courses etc) in many respects doesn't do the university or students any good if they drop out of WVU at an exceptionally high rate (frustration).

Think about it.

Some students upon graduation from HS may not be adequately prepared to take on the responsibilities of college for a variety of reasons.

They could be good students who did not take school seriously and lack the study skills or didn't take the necessary stem courses (math, science, technology,engineering etc) to help them succeed. Throwing them in an environment with highly motivated students could lead to frustration and the decision to drop out of school (maybe never to return).

Maybe, guaranteed admission to ALL students to one of the states community colleges where the more marginal student can acquire the skills/courses/study habits neccessary to succeed in college with a guaranteed admission to WVU after obtaining their associate degree could be an alternative approach. In any event the student can acquire an associate degree and then decide if he/she wants to continue their education at WVU to obtain their bachelors degree.

WVU can set minimum standards for admission (SAT/ACT, GPA, Course Requirements etc) and reduce their drop out rate and improve their academic ranking in publications like US News.

Just a couple of comments/thoughts and I realize West Virginia sets their own standards.

I do think WVU is a good school but gets hammered by some of the things they do or don't do.

As another poster adequately said Perception is Reality.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!
 
Thank God for that! A bunch of arrogant, self important, self righteous assholes. If they are now interested as they were when we joined the Big 12, (Yes they were) we should in the long run tell them to go f**k themselves. In 5 years the B12 will be a superior conference. Either way we take a pay cut.
The ACC schools are going to be behind the SEC, Big Ten and Pac 12 financially and will probably still try to do something to change that--expansion one of two things they can probably do to affect the bottom line. Otherwise they won't remain stable once their GOR gets closer.

Either way you can expect that they'll lose some schools once that contract gets closer if the SEC is still into world domination and as they and the B10 get closer to their new contracts.

The BIG 12 has a renegotiation coming, what everyone is forgetting in the numbers talked about is that they are talking about the LAST contract signed in 2012 when talking about the supposed worth of the remaining schools. What they leave out is that there has never been a renegotiation where schools didn't get a pay bump in their next deals.

Even with UT/OU gone, the additions and remaining schools are in line to get some sort of increase--especially when tv ratings show they are getting the same or better ratings than half the B10 and SEC and most of the PAC and ACC. But it all comes down to what media outlets can the rights be split between and for how much--remains to be seen.
 
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Maybe, that is the conundrum West Virginia faces.

Accepting students with low (SAT/ACT, GPA scores, Study Skills, Stem courses etc) in many respects doesn't do the university or students any good if they drop out of WVU at an exceptionally high rate (frustration).

Think about it.

Some students upon graduation from HS may not be adequately prepared to take on the responsibilities of college for a variety of reasons.

They could be good students who did not take school seriously and lack the study skills or didn't take the necessary stem courses (math, science, technology,engineering etc) to help them succeed. Throwing them in an environment with highly motivated students could lead to frustration and the decision to drop out of school (maybe never to return).

Maybe, guaranteed admission to ALL students to one of the states community colleges where the more marginal student can acquire the skills/courses/study habits neccessary to succeed in college with a guaranteed admission to WVU after obtaining their associate degree could be an alternative approach. In any event the student can acquire an associate degree and then decide if he/she wants to continue their education at WVU to obtain their bachelors degree.

WVU can set minimum standards for admission (SAT/ACT, GPA, Course Requirements etc) and reduce their drop out rate and improve their academic ranking in publications like US News.

Just a couple of comments/thoughts and I realize West Virginia sets their own standards.

I do think WVU is a good school but gets hammered by some of the things they do or don't do.

As another poster adequately said Perception is Reality.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!
Its doubtful WVU is going to change its mission so that US NEWS can sell more magazines, which is what their "rankings" are really all about.
 
So we should change our state laws, change our mission statement so that we look better to the BIG10 and the ACC? Two conferences that in all likelihood, would never be interested in WVU because of factors that have nothing to do with academics. The PAC12, is simply and totally absurd regardless of academic ranking, so they don't count. The SEC would probably overlook an academic ranking if we were a huge addition to their sports hegemony, which we aren't. The next targets for the BIG and the SEC will be Notre Dame, maybe a couple of schools in the PAC12 and a few schools in the ACC. The Big12, which includes several schools with better rankings than WVU, seems to be fine with us as we are. Where we are, if we are looked at in terms of Power 5 public universities, is probably around 70th or so, maybe better. The ACC, which abandoned their Atlantic Coast requirement and their academic standards requirement when they accepted Louisville, is looking less attractive all the time, and the BIG12 is looking better and better to me.
 
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Maybe, that is the conundrum West Virginia faces.

Accepting students with low (SAT/ACT, GPA scores, Study Skills, Stem courses etc) in many respects doesn't do the university or students any good if they drop out of WVU at an exceptionally high rate (frustration).

Think about it.

Some students upon graduation from HS may not be adequately prepared to take on the responsibilities of college for a variety of reasons.

They could be good students who did not take school seriously and lack the study skills or didn't take the necessary stem courses (math, science, technology,engineering etc) to help them succeed. Throwing them in an environment with highly motivated students could lead to frustration and the decision to drop out of school (maybe never to return).

Maybe, guaranteed admission to ALL students to one of the states community colleges where the more marginal student can acquire the skills/courses/study habits neccessary to succeed in college with a guaranteed admission to WVU after obtaining their associate degree could be an alternative approach. In any event the student can acquire an associate degree and then decide if he/she wants to continue their education at WVU to obtain their bachelors degree.

WVU can set minimum standards for admission (SAT/ACT, GPA, Course Requirements etc) and reduce their drop out rate and improve their academic ranking in publications like US News.

Just a couple of comments/thoughts and I realize West Virginia sets their own standards.

I do think WVU is a good school but gets hammered by some of the things they do or don't do.

As another poster adequately said Perception is Reality.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!
Perception is based upon speculation and reality is based upon facts. An institution should be fairly judged by the success of it's graduates, not admission standards. You're judging the raw material over the finished product. USNWR favors private schools and is biased. The real measurement is Carnegie.
 
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Perception is based upon speculation and reality is based upon facts. An institution should be fairly judged by the success of it's graduates, not admission standards. You're judging the raw material over the finished product. USNWR favors private schools and is biased. The real measurement is Carnegie.
Exactly- and US news even uses Carnegie- they simply change Carnefie designations to fit whatever us news want the results to be.
 
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With B12 adding a few cupcakes to the leftovers, can we finally drop the fantasy of joining the ACC?

The ACC was not interested in WVU 30 years ago, 20 years ago, 10 years ago, or now. The ACC does NOT want WVU. Never did.

WVU is just like Cincy, Iowa State, and KSU. WVU is nothing like UVA, Duke, UNC, Wake, etc.
🥱
 
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Given where West Virginia ranks on just about any statistic, median income, median cost of housing, percentage of the population with an advanced degree, the number of billionaires, the number of millionaires, number of fortune 500 corporations, obesity, % below the poverty line, population, % of white collar jobs, % of people with trust funds, incorporated towns with a population in excess of 200K people, number of manufacturers with global distribution, diversity of the economy, whatever, it is pretty much a miracle that WVU compares as well as it does with other public universities. You are living in a dream world if you don't think these rankings are connected. Where should WVU rank academically, given where the state ranks in just about any other statistical measurement? Sure, we could do a little better by diverting some students who are unprepared for college to some satelite but realistically, how far up would this move WVU up the ranks? WVU is not that far from exactly where they should be among public universities in a Power 5 conference.
 
Given where West Virginia ranks on just about any statistic, median income, median cost of housing, percentage of the population with an advanced degree, the number of billionaires, the number of millionaires, number of fortune 500 corporations, obesity, % below the poverty line, population, % of white collar jobs, % of people with trust funds, incorporated towns with a population in excess of 200K people, number of manufacturers with global distribution, diversity of the economy, whatever, it is pretty much a miracle that WVU compares as well as it does with other public universities. You are living in a dream world if you don't think these rankings are connected. Where should WVU rank academically, given where the state ranks in just about any other statistical measurement? Sure, we could do a little better by diverting some students who are unprepared for college to some satelite but realistically, how far up would this move WVU up the ranks? WVU is not that far from exactly where they should be among public universities in a Power 5 conference.
Not having a feeder school system like UNC hits our admission and drop rates so hard it's got to be responsible for 50-100 points easy. You can "yeah but" the rankings all you want, but they are what they are and people use them.

As far as the quality of WVU, I don't think the state being 50th in everything measurable is that big a deal, because of the sizable out of state student population. WVU like many state schools can offset their in-state boneheads by admitting more qualified out-of-state students. Down here in the Atlanta area it is almost impossible to get a north Atlanta kid into UGA anymore - too much competition for too few spots. The overflow of really smart Atlanta kids has caused Alabama and U South Carolina to improve greatly. WVU ought to be able to rely on the DC / Baltimore / PA area.

This year a couple of Atlanta kids I know are at WVU and they and their parents just love it. One of the kids got his picture with Gordon Gee the first day and everyone thought that was pretty cool. Try getting that with UGA's president.
 
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