The only thing that was funny is when root schooled you on you're grammar attacks.
Big 12
- Thread starter 5150
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The only thing that was funny is when root schooled you on you're grammar attacks.
LOL, yeah....sooo epic. But you're the gift that keeps on giving, and I'm planning a good April Fools Day post this year.
Remember last year?
You're immaturity is on display as always. Sooo? I guess your're cell phone didn't pick that one up either. Still dodging the original question about football performance as always.
Actually, I did touch on that and you must have ignored it.
WVU's brand is stronger than ever. Increased enrollment, improving facilities, and improving recruiting are all symptoms of a strong brand, imo. We are going in a stronger direction now more than ever and our national exposure is much higher in the B12 compared to the Big East. IMO, I don't see the problem.
We aren't UCF, or Memphis. Those schools need to win big, and win now because they don't really have a brand to fall back on. WVU does. We've been playing football for over 100 years, been members of two power conferences, have had great rivalries, players and teams. I don't know exactly where we fall in the college football storybook, but our place in it is a good one.
Anyone in the business of college football knows WVU has a strong commitment to winning and competing. Every program has up years and down years, but WVU's commitment has always remained, and anyone with an opinion that is important in this saga already knows that.
Brands are built in a couple years. Our brand is the result of DECADES of work. A couple 7-6 seasons doesn't mean much, so what exactly is it you're worried about?
Baylor has been winning big recently. Would you care to have their brand right now?
5150 started this thread as another attack on DH. Remember, 5150 is part of the BS flock of followers I mentioned earlier. It's just his way of trolling and trying to make Dana and WVU look poorly.
Allot of schools are seeing increased enrollment and facility upgrades. Just because we are now members of an overrated under performing conference doesn't necessarily mean our brand has improved. Going 7-5 and being irrelevant isn't going to improve the overall image of the football program considering the Long term stability of the conference is in question. Why are so scared to make a coaching change? There are 3 possibilities the new coach could be better he could be the same or he could be worse but if all where doing is going 7-5 with invitations to crappy bowl games then it doesn't hurt to give someone else a chance. Its true that Lyons has never made a coaching hire but he has held high positions at the university of Alabama and in the ACC front office so Im sure he has allot of contacts. None of this ensures he will make the proper hire but he has more experience at the collegiate level than Luck had when he 1st came to Wvu. The majority of people don't care who the coach is as long as there is a general feeling that the program is performing at its optimal level. You're right there are some people who never accepted DH because of the Stewart issue but on the Flip side there are DH supporters who can't admit that he has failed to bring the program back into the national discussion in the way RR did.
Like I said, I don't think Dana is that bad of a coach. Going from a team expected to beat Big East programs each week to a team expected to beat B12 programs each week is very difficult. We don't have any competitive advantage against most teams in the B12.
I don't think 8 wins is that bad considering the circumstances. Two seasons ago we went 7-6. We opened against Alabama that season. Normally, that opener would have been a cupcake/pushover. I liked having the Alabama game on the schedule despite the loss, but with a normal schedule that would have been an 8 win season too, and if Trickett doesn't get hurt I think we win 9-10.
So basically, I thought the team has been going in the right direction for the last two years.
Dana just brought in a NFL talent-level QB. I'd like to see what our team looks like with a QB that good under Dana. We saw how good Geno looked under Dana and I would like to see him get his last shot with Grier. That's just my opinion.
Regarding Luck, yes he didn't have as much NCAA experience than Lyons, but he has a heck of a lot more football experience and I'd wager he has deeper connections too. But that's all history. Sometimes it's just a matter of luck and timing.
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This is indeed a significant year for WVU sports for several reasons. Establishing the Mountaineers as having progressed to the upper tier of the Big 12 is important. Once again proving the pundits and prognosticators wrong is always enjoyable for everyone associated with WVU including the players and fans.
This is obviously a major year for the coaching staff, regression is simply not an option. Easily measurable improvement will bring needed stability to the coaching staff and will likely aid in flipping recruits before signing day.
The talent is there, this could be a very good year if key players stay within their strengths and avoid 'growth areas' during games. This could be a good year indeed to be a Mountaineer.
There is actually even more pressure on other schools to excel. Alabama and others have to prove again they are still the cream of the crop. Houston may even have a tougher challenge. The best way to secure or solidify being invited to the Big 12 is obviously to beat Oklahoma in their opener. That's pressure.
This is obviously a major year for the coaching staff, regression is simply not an option. Easily measurable improvement will bring needed stability to the coaching staff and will likely aid in flipping recruits before signing day.
The talent is there, this could be a very good year if key players stay within their strengths and avoid 'growth areas' during games. This could be a good year indeed to be a Mountaineer.
There is actually even more pressure on other schools to excel. Alabama and others have to prove again they are still the cream of the crop. Houston may even have a tougher challenge. The best way to secure or solidify being invited to the Big 12 is obviously to beat Oklahoma in their opener. That's pressure.
Our brand is fine and our win/loss record over the course of a couple seasons won't mean anything if the B12 crumbles.
That's my point, our brand is already firmly established. It's not something that really changes year-to-year. So likewise, if we win 10 games this season, our brand doesn't really change much. We've done it before, we'll do it again, because that's just who we are as a program.
You know what damaged our brand? Diploma-Gate and student riots.
And how do you do that? Won - lost record? Conference record? Ability to recruit a QB...and actually keep him? In game decisions? Ability to adapt to game conditions? Ability to hire...and keep...any quality position coaches? Ah.....Red Bull consumption! Got it. lol
Here we go with the big east to big 12 comparisons the typical BS we have been hearing for years. I guess TCU didn't get the memo going from a non qualifier conference to a power 5 and being able to win a share of it in 3 years not saying much about the big 12 is it? In regards to Dana bringing in an NFL talent at QB you don't now that. You don't if the guy will ever play a down here and if he does you don't how good he will be. Dana isn't running anything remotely close to what UF is running and UF hasn't exactly been a hotbed for Great NFL QB over the last 20 years.
If the Big 12 crumbles we would be in better position if we where winning 9+ games and competing for conference championships than going 7-5. You know you're brand has taken a hit when people are debating who the best team in the state of Wv is.
College football has become more about Big business than anything else these days. The program has reached a fork in the road. DH will more than likely be coaching for his job this season if the guru's who write magazine articles have the correct sources. If we are hiring a new coach 4 months from now then i hope its because DH blew away the expectations and received a better offer not that I like losing any coach but having a great season is more enjoyable than one perceived as underachievement. If DH fails to meet whatever Gordon Gee or Lyons expectations are and ends up with the pink slip I will be saddened but I will respect the decision. DH is entering year 6 which is more than enough time for a fair evaluation in today's world of college football. Look at schools like auburn Gene Chiziak gets fired 2 years after winning A NC, Guz Malzahn is said to be on the Hot seat after playing in the NC game 2 years ago. I doubt either one of those guys would even be close to getting fired at Wvu for doing that. The 2005-2007 seasons raised the bar at wvu. It might be foolish to expect that now in the Big 12 and any coach who fails to achieve that might end up losing his job which may not be fair but on the other side of the equation a coach is not going to be allowed to continue to go 7-5 every year and expect to keep his job anywhere in college football these days with the amount of money involved.
over time average won/lose records will change our brand, and you and I both know this to be true. Im not sure
if you think that winning 7 or 8 games a season over a period of time then your just avoiding the true with is brand does change over time and it the first thing looked at by a new conference is won/lose record of its football. Also something else that can hurt the brand is the number of players being arrested which is on a big upswing in our program. Its time to stop supporting a certain coach, AD, or person and be a fan of the program. Dana is not our program
All of the above, minus the stupid comments about red bull.
Fine, then why didn't Lyons step up and fire him after last season?
Dana still has a large sum left on his contract after this season. If we go 7-6 and he keeps his job, then maybe the problem is our AD is penny pinching.
We just disagree on that. Colorado wasn't winning 9 games a year, nor Rutgers. These are long term commitments and plus/minus 1 or 2 wins over a period of a couple seasons is irrelevant.
We won big for a long time and that never seemed to matter to the ACC or SEC.
You guys are acting like we've had 5 straight losing seasons.
We won 8 games last season and only a few years removed from a BCS Bowl. I understand the passion to win but some of this talk is purely frantic.
Recruiting is better than ever, so our brand doesn't seem to be an issue with recruits.
I agree players getting arrested looks poorly, but what program doesn't share that problem? ND just 4 - 5 players arrested this week and I dont expect their "brand" changing much.
You know who has a "brand" problem? PSU, Baylor, Miami, UNC....
Do you really think TCU is going to maintain this success?
They do have a great coach and a nice new stadium, but eventually TCU will slip back - all teams do.
Do you expect Baylor's success to continue? IMO, they just saw the last of their glory years.....perhaps after this season.
BS has nothing to do with this debate. If we are looking for a new conference we need to be winning at a high level. Losing to a 6-6 Kansas State team is not winning at a high level. Alleers posted we need to be fans of the program not a coach. I agree. Which are you. A fan Dana or a fan of a program that sees its brand slowly being diminish when we see the conference having problems and we may be looking again.
PSU, Baylor, Miami, and UNC wont have a problem finding a conference if that becomes an issue. WVU will have a problem so winning means more to us then most. This coming season Baskeball and Baseball will play at a high level, so why not expect the same from our football program? I tell you why? Because some are fans of the coach and not the program.
Phuck you and your imaginary friends. BS has everything to do with it, for you at least.
Maybe a few more attacks on Luck/Dana and JR will let you rub his shoulders.
I've stated, very clearly that I thought Lyons should have fired Dana after last season. He didnt. So right now, Dana is still the coach and I won't attempt to sabotage him or the program in the meantime - you have no problem doing that, unfortunately.
Tell your boy Lyons to pull the trigger, problem solved.
Our high level basketball team got creamed by Kentucky as if we weren't even on the court and then got bounced first round by a bunch of scrubs.
Funny, you don't seem to be on a mission to smear Huggins though.
Im really not sure what you are trying to debate? One post you think 7 and 8 wins is not hurting the brand then next post you say you wanted Dana fired? Then the next post your raging on Huggs for losing to a good Kentucky team.
What is your point?
No, I don't think 7-8 win seasons, over a few years hurts the WVU brand. That's not how brands work. IMO, folks are misusing the term.
However, I said very clearly that Lyons should have fired Dana after last season. It's obvious the relationship isn't good, and just imo, I don't think Dana really is happy either.
I think the pairing has run its course and Dana has done a job well enough that he'd find other good opportunities. Luck is gone and despite his shortcomings, we at least knew where he stood with things, and what he wanted in a program. Thus far, I really have no clue what direction Lyons wants to take.
After the extension debacle, what can really be salvaged? If the relationship is toxic, cut bait.
I've said many times, make a clean break and move on.
I wasn't raging on Huggins, he's doing a good job. My point was that if you're agenda driven, the way 5150 is, you can always find SOMETHING to use as a tool to attack a coach. 5150 has a personal dislike for DH. Started from Day 1. All of his posts are meant to undermine Dana, and nothing more. It's pure horse crap.
Think about it, 5150 is now implying that if the B12 crumbles, that it will be Dana's fault if we get left out of expansion. Do you have any idea how completely stupid that is?
When these conversations start, always consider the source.
You've heard it here first folks.....
The future of the B12 is dependent on how football games WVU wins this season, and our place in college football expansion relies on us winning 9 games this season.
The future of the B12 is dependent on how football games WVU wins this season, and our place in college football expansion relies on us winning 9 games this season.
Yes, I have had a problem with Dana do you want the list if issues:
1. Over slept on a meeting with the Gov.
2. When Defensive coaches were in the film room getting players ready for practice Dana was out running around
3. Hired Joe Deforest and said defense was taking a back seat at WVU
4. Has had the highest turn over of staff in the country
5. Hired a Head of Football ops that got fired for doing crazy stuff.
I can go on and on....thank god we had an ex football player in Ollie Luck running our athletic department because he was handling all administrative duties.
Bottom line: I agree, you are making no sense, one minute you are trashing me for trashing Dana but the next minute you want him gone.
Btw,
I just want to win! If that makes me a BS lover then sorry but its time to start winning again! That's my agenda? If Dana starts winning 9 games or more a year, I will be a huge fan.
I don't need trash Dana to express my opinion. You do, because that's your mission - to publicly trash him.
I wanted Bill Stewart gone too, but I never felt the need to trash him. His true colors were shown by his own hand.
If you're upset Dana is our coach, blame Lyons. He could have fired him and moved on last season but he couldn't pull the trigger.
You wanted to sabotage Dana from the get-go, and you toss out rumors and lies hoping something sticks.
Refresh my memory, who also tried to spread rumors and sabotage Dana after he was hired? The Wetzel County Jesus, Bill Stewart.
I see the playbook hasn't changed. Your mission to hire Terry Bowden might just come true, afterall.
I think Lyons will replace Dana with Gibby.
If the team gets off to a really bad start, I could see Dana let go mid-season and Gibby taking over, then keeping the position.
Or if we have a great season, I see Dana leaving....perhaps for Houston.
If the team gets off to a really bad start, I could see Dana let go mid-season and Gibby taking over, then keeping the position.
Or if we have a great season, I see Dana leaving....perhaps for Houston.
I will support whoever the coach is but for the posters who feel that coach Holgorson is being held to too high a standard due to being in the Big 12 then they should be careful about making statements about bringing in NFL caliber Qb's. This will due nothing but increase the pressure on the coaching staff to produce.
What would Coach Holgorsen do for HC Tom Herman at Houston? Herman already makes more than Holgs and will certainly get a raise if UH beats Oklahoma and/or makes it to the Big 12. Where is he going?
I think he was under the assumption that if Hermann has a good year he will move up the coaching ranks to maybe a Texas or Texas am or LSU if there is an opening. Houston pretty much increased Hermann's salary to price out any mid level power five school from pursuing him. I doubt Houston would pursue coach Holgorson. Coach is already making 3 million a year and Houston would probably have to pay around 4 million when all is said and done and there not the type of program that's gonna pay that type of money for a new coach. Florida hired Coach mac at 3.5. If Holgs is trying to use wvu as a stepping stone then he probably has his sights set on something bigger than an American Conference school. If he where to end up at Houston it would be for less money and an added sense of security.
Obviously, just speculation that Herman probably moves on after this season.
That was my point. I'm not sure Dana is really happy at WVU and if an opportunity came by, such as Houston, I wouldn't be surprised if he made the move.
If Houston has a good season, Herman's stock is going to be very high. It's just a theory, that's all.
Just for clarity, Coach Herman's base salary is currently $3 million. There may be less than 10 schools that could hire him away, especially if UH is invited to the Big 12. If Texas flops again this year, who knows?
I see the possibilities, but last season will be hard to top for Herman. Final AP Top 10 with four wins over ranked teams including a smackdown of FSU in the Peach Bowl. They open with Oklahoma at home. What an opportunity!
If they remain G5 would that not be a step backwards for Coach Holgorsen?
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