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BIG 12 meetings

coalcountry52 said:
Discuss what? Adding metro/directional schools?

F*** to the no.
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You can tell this guy understands how conference expansion works...
th
 
Buckaineer said:
From everything Boren has stated and the reports of the meetings, candidates and details will be discussed at the meetings. Doubtful there are votes lined up for anyone, they won't vote at this meeting, they will discuss. Lots of info to be passed along and scrutinized by the membership.
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Something to take into account is that the expansion committee as working for a year on this issue and they have certainly conferred with all of the Big 12 members but have also been to a few campuses and are reported in the press as having spoken about expansion while on those campuses. I suggest that this meeting is further along than preliminary discussion. The mere fact that so much time has been set aside would indicate that there is a list of items to comb through and consider. I could be completely wrong on this but they will at least vote on whether to expand or not if they do not decide on candidates.
 
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michaelwalkerbr said:
However, I have never seen a conference knowingly expand to include someone who may immediately come in and take the championship.
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There's a problem with that viewpoint. Generally, the teams that can come in and win the conference are blueblood programs. Those schools usually aren't up for expansion, because they don't have to be. Most of them are well-situated in P5 conferences and don't need to move anywhere in the first place. Nebraska is about the only exception, although they weren't near their traditional form when they left. There really aren't many teams out there that can come into a P5 conference and immediately win the championship.
 
Charleston Mountie said:
Something to take into account is that the expansion committee as working for a year on this issue and they have certainly conferred with all of the Big 12 members but have also been to a few campuses and are reported in the press as having spoken about expansion while on those campuses. I suggest that this meeting is further along than preliminary discussion. The mere fact that so much time has been set aside would indicate that there is a list of items to comb through and consider. I could be completely wrong on this but they will at least vote on whether to expand or not if they do not decide on candidates.
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These are regularly scheduled meetings in the BIG 12 that happen each and every year. They just have some different items to address this year. There is another set of meetings in May where they vote on matters that were discussed at the February meetings. That is there operating procedure. They probably want there to be discussion and consideration in between February and May. In the meetings this week they'll have presentations and discussions--no votes. The composition committee has been meeting with schools as have probably a few others on their behalf and media advisors have consulted with the committee. Boren stated that they will then confer with the rest of the league's presidents, commissioner and chancellors and present their findings.

A plan to move forward should take place this week, with decisions on a timeline for implementing the comprehensive plan or whatever they decide to do.
 
Nothing they do this week or in May will surprise me, but Gee will tell all he knows. I will bet by the end of the year we will know what teams are coming.
 
Charleston Mountie said:
I believe that Cincinnati has the votes, but I do not think any proposed candidate partner has 8 votes. They are unlikely to expand by 1, but there have been 11 team conferences before. If they are going to devote the bulk of the meeting time to this issue, they are going to expand to at least 12 or not at all.

I believe the meeting ends with a move to expand with Cincinnati and _________ .
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Just curious, why do you think Cincy has the votes, when it appears at this time there aren't even enough votes to expand.
 
Mountaineer Steve said:
Just curious, why do you think Cincy has the votes, when it appears at this time there aren't even enough votes to expand.
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Since the time Missouri and Texas A&M left the Big 12, representatives of the members of the Big 12 have all mentioned Cincinnati as a likely candidate. Obviously those mentions have been few for some schools and frequent for others and when some mentioned them it was not always an endorsement. I read that as the various members all know of the non-P5 schools, Cincinnati has the best resume. I think Cincinnati has a better resume than BYU, if only because of the Sunday thing for the Mormons. If there is one candidate that every member of the Big 12 can agree IF they expand, it seems to be Cincinnati.
 
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michaelwalkerbr said:
Isn't adding the word State effectively the same as directional? If a school is a part of the state university system does it matter what the name is? Southern California is directional as an extreme example. Miami is a small private school you could call metro. As a matter of fact, TCU is a small private Christian school with only 11k students on campus and they fit quite well into the Big 12.

Why is there an issue with some regarding the name of a school? If they fit the criteria mandated by the collective votes of the conference membership, everything else is settled on the playing field.
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That's laughable you would make that comparison. There are already several "State" schools in power 5 conferences, some with championships. And in terms of directional schools, Southern Cal is an exception, not the rule.

Miami is a metro school. So is Pitt. Do you not see empty stadiums when they play? There just isn't the same level of fan support at those schools unless they're having a damn fine year. You all are jumping up and down for a Cincinnati that fills its ~40,000 seat stadium when it's doing great.

And if you would read, I mentioned that the Big XII had private religious schools in TCU and Baylor. Given TCU wasn't the first religious school added, that argument doesn't hold water, plus they had paid their dues over a decade prior to joining. Cincinnati took advantage of having Brian Kelly and us having Bill Stewart to have two very good seasons, and haven't been that great since. They haven't done enough to earn their place.

I don't need to defend why I don't want us adding metro and directional schools. Just look to the reactive Big East that took on most of C-USA to see how well that went in terms of being a power/BCS conference. Those of you jumping at any option because they're the only options are the same types that really must miss the days of always being told "yeah, well, they have to play Directional U and Metro U, and if they played a real schedule they would suck!"
 
coalcountry52 said:
That's laughable you would make that comparison. There are already several "State" schools in power 5 conferences, some with championships. And in terms of directional schools, Southern Cal is an exception, not the rule.

Miami is a metro school. So is Pitt. Do you not see empty stadiums when they play? There just isn't the same level of fan support at those schools unless they're having a damn fine year. You all are jumping up and down for a Cincinnati that fills its ~40,000 seat stadium when it's doing great.

And if you would read, I mentioned that the Big XII had private religious schools in TCU and Baylor. Given TCU wasn't the first religious school added, that argument doesn't hold water, plus they had paid their dues over a decade prior to joining. Cincinnati took advantage of having Brian Kelly and us having Bill Stewart to have two very good seasons, and haven't been that great since. They haven't done enough to earn their place.

I don't need to defend why I don't want us adding metro and directional schools. Just look to the reactive Big East that took on most of C-USA to see how well that went in terms of being a power/BCS conference. Those of you jumping at any option because they're the only options are the same types that really must miss the days of always being told "yeah, well, they have to play Directional U and Metro U, and if they played a real schedule they would suck!"
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USF had 65k butts in seats when they played WVU last. The name of a school means nothing. If Miami changed their name to Florida Christian University would that make them better? Cincinnati has nearly as many on campus students as WVU, they are still going to bowls, also. What would you suggest they change their name to? Let the presidents and ADs do their jobs, then let's see what happens either way. The conference is liable to do anything.
 
Some tweets on today's AD meetings:
George Schroeder ‏@GeorgeSchroeder 2h2 hours ago

Bob Bowlsby: Big 12 May/June mtgs has more shot at decisions on items including conference title game/network/expansion—but not necessarily

George Schroeder ‏@GeorgeSchroeder 2h2 hours ago

Bowlsby: ‘We have a long way to go to have conclusive outcomes” on much of anything.

Chuck Carlton ‏@ChuckCarltonDMN 2h2 hours ago

Bowlsby says no venue or hotels for 2016 if conference wanted football title game. Some data today makes them wonder title game helps.

George Schroeder Retweeted
Kirk Bohls ‏@kbohls 2h2 hours ago

Bowlsby on a Big 12 title game: "as we go on, becomes less likely we’d do it for ’16."

George Schroeder ‏@GeorgeSchroeder 1h1 hour ago

Big 12 presidents meet tomorrow. Expansion isn’t on the agenda, Bowlsby says. Expects a report from composition committee as is usual.

George Schroeder ‏@GeorgeSchroeder 1h1 hour ago

Texas Tech AD Kirby Hocutt, on the @CFBPlayoff selection committee, was scheduled to report on the process but they didn’t get to it.

George Schroeder ‏@GeorgeSchroeder 55m55 minutes ago

Texas AD Mike Perrin characterizes Big 12 AD meetings as “very collegial.”

George Schroeder ‏@GeorgeSchroeder 41m41 minutes ago

Texas AD Mike Perrin: “I think the Big 12 is in a healthy position. I think we have got to be ever vigilant.”

George Schroeder ‏@GeorgeSchroeder 40m40 minutes ago

Texas AD Mike Perrin said he wouldn’t speak for Texas pres Fenves re: expansion, but Perrin is “happy with the composition as we have it."
 
More tweets:

John E. Hoover ‏@johnehoover 46m46 minutes ago

Perrin: On LHN/B12 network combo: "I don't know." #Big12

John E. Hoover ‏@johnehoover 49m49 minutes ago

Perrin: "Today was about looking at options in the future and how you analyze options." #Big12

John E. Hoover ‏@johnehoover 52m52 minutes ago

Perrin: "Didn't see (Boren's) comments (on folding LHN into B12 network)." #Big12

John E. Hoover ‏@johnehoover 55m55 minutes ago

Perrin: On CCG rematch: "I do'nt have any thoughts, but it's certainly a possibility."

John E. Hoover ‏@johnehoover 58m58 minutes ago

Perrin: Something like 760-780 permutations of a schedule..."a lot of possibilities...considering divisions, etc." #Big12


  1. John E. Hoover ‏@johnehoover 1h1 hour ago
    Bowlsby: We've asked (consultants) to provide data by May. #Big12
  2. John E. Hoover ‏@johnehoover 1h1 hour ago
    Bowlsby: Full agenda tomorrow, only got thru half agenda today. #Big12


    John E. Hoover ‏@johnehoover 1h1 hour ago
    Bowlsby: Doesn't expect any action to be taking on expansion or our CCG. #Big12
 
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and more:

  1. John E. Hoover ‏@johnehoover 1h1 hour ago
    Bowlsby re disadvantaged comment: "Our distribution was largest in college athletics this year." #Big12



  2. John E. Hoover ‏@johnehoover 1h1 hour ago
    Bowlsby: No comment on Boren's $4-6m per school boost from a #Big12 network; no discussion of folding LHN into a league-wide deal.


    John E. Hoover ‏@johnehoover 1h1 hour ago
    Bowlsby: "Seems to be an almost limitless appetite for content" and live sports is a driving force. #Big12


    John E. Hoover ‏@johnehoover 1h1 hour ago
    Bowlsby: Expansion/Network/CCG is not necessarily a package deal.


    John E. Hoover ‏@johnehoover 1h1 hour ago
    Zenger: "We always like money. ... But there's always residual effects. Can't do everything for money." #Big12


    John E. Hoover ‏@johnehoover 1h1 hour ago
    Bowlsby: "More inventory you have, better you can populate a network. w/ smaller group, have to migrate content from Tier 1 & 2." #Big12


    John E. Hoover ‏@johnehoover 1h1 hour ago
    Bowlsby: #Big12 CCG at home site of top seed "is one model." He approved of that model when he was in the Pac-12.

    John E. Hoover ‏@johnehoover 1h1 hour ago
    Bowlsby: No comment on discussing network related to partnerships w Fox & ESPN. #Big12
 

  1. Expansion related tweets:

    John E. Hoover ‏@johnehoover     2h2 hours ago
    Bowlsby: "We didn't spend any time talking about expansion." #Big12

  2. John E. Hoover ‏@johnehoover 2h2 hours ago
    Bowlsby: TV market, academics "are 2 of the components, & there are 10 more...you don't take any into consideration til you see the data."



    John E. Hoover ‏@johnehoover 2h2 hours ago
    Bowlsby: "It's all hypothetical at this point, and there's been no attempt to make it unhypothetical." #Big12


    John E. Hoover ‏@johnehoover 2h2 hours ago
    Bowlsby: Media consultants "have a lot more work to do" before expansion happens. #Big12



    John E. Hoover ‏@johnehoover 2h2 hours ago
    Bowlsby: "We saw statistical percentages that said you're more likely to go into the playoff under this scenario than that scenario." #Big12



    John E. Hoover ‏@johnehoover 2h2 hours ago
    Bowlsby: Expansion is about going to the marketplace and seeing what it's worth. #Big12


    John E. Hoover ‏@johnehoover 2h2 hours ago
    Bowlsby: Media consultants "don't sit down and tell you how much it's worth" to expand or not. #Big12



    John E. Hoover ‏@johnehoover 2h2 hours ago
    Bowlsby: "Premature" to discuss pros and cons of CCG "until we have the data. #Big12



    John E. Hoover ‏@johnehoover 2h2 hours ago
    Bowlsby: "We're doing a deep dive on all this stuff, and are intent on making very intelligent, meaningful, reliable decisions." #Big12


    John E. Hoover ‏@johnehoover 2h2 hours ago
    Bowlsby: Firm looked at adding members w/wo CCG, staying at 10 w/wo CCG. "I dont think you can make decisions w/o that kind of data." #big12



    John E. Hoover ‏@johnehoover 2h2 hours ago
    Bowlsby: A local analysis firm examined components of a 9-game schedule & 8-game schedule as it relates to making CFP.



    John E. Hoover ‏@johnehoover 2h2 hours ago
    Bowlsby: "As we go on, it becomes less likely we would do it (add conference title game) for '16." No venue, hotels.



    John E. Hoover ‏@johnehoover 2h2 hours ago
    Zenger: Today was "a typical agenda" ... "No votes were taken. Today's room was a very cohesive room."



    John E. Hoover ‏@johnehoover 2h2 hours ago
    Bowlsby: Long way to go to have conclusive outcomes...



    John E. Hoover ‏@johnehoover 2h2 hours ago
    Bowlsby: Annual spring meetings in May will be "a huge data dump for us." #big12



    John E. Hoover ‏@johnehoover 2h2 hours ago
    Bowlsby: #Big12 ADs took no action today. (Presidents meet tomorrow). Don't expect decisions made in May, but process will continue
 
michaelwalkerbr said:
USF had 65k butts in seats when they played WVU last. The name of a school means nothing. If Miami changed their name to Florida Christian University would that make them better? Cincinnati has nearly as many on campus students as WVU, they are still going to bowls, also. What would you suggest they change their name to? Let the presidents and ADs do their jobs, then let's see what happens either way. The conference is liable to do anything.
Click to expand...
I went to a USF game and when White and Super Steve was playing. The stadium was half empty, and their fans had no idea how to cheer for their team. I actually had some lady sitting in front of me that we were cheering too loud. Say What????

If BIG12 expands it needs to include a Fla team. Between UCF and USF I take the former
 
coalcountry52 said:
That's laughable you would make that comparison. There are already several "State" schools in power 5 conferences, some with championships. And in terms of directional schools, Southern Cal is an exception, not the rule.

Miami is a metro school. So is Pitt. Do you not see empty stadiums when they play? There just isn't the same level of fan support at those schools unless they're having a damn fine year. You all are jumping up and down for a Cincinnati that fills its ~40,000 seat stadium when it's doing great.

And if you would read, I mentioned that the Big XII had private religious schools in TCU and Baylor. Given TCU wasn't the first religious school added, that argument doesn't hold water, plus they had paid their dues over a decade prior to joining. Cincinnati took advantage of having Brian Kelly and us having Bill Stewart to have two very good seasons, and haven't been that great since. They haven't done enough to earn their place.

I don't need to defend why I don't want us adding metro and directional schools. Just look to the reactive Big East that took on most of C-USA to see how well that went in terms of being a power/BCS conference. Those of you jumping at any option because they're the only options are the same types that really must miss the days of always being told "yeah, well, they have to play Directional U and Metro U, and if they played a real schedule they would suck!"
Click to expand...

Southern Cal is not a directional school. It's a private university.
 
Part of the problem with directional schools (which is a vague and unofficial term), is they are often governed by the same bodies as their bigger brothers, which makes them politically impotent and troublesome to manage.
 
Translation from all the tweets regarding today's meeting: "We have no idea what the hell we are going to do about anything. Maybe in May/June, maybe not. But all proposals are not locked together."
 
Write up in Tulsa World Herald:

John E. Hoover: Big 12 meets, but arrives at no decisions

IRVING, Texas — The Big 12 Conference is considering the big three — expansion, a conference network and a postseason championship game — but isn’t close to making any real decisions.

That was the tenor from Thursday’s meetings with Big 12 athletic directors.


“Maybe the headline,” said Texas athletic director Mike Perrin, “is that there is no headline.”


Perrin, Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby and AD chairman Sheahon Zenger of Kansas met the press after a half-day of meetings at Big 12 headquarters, nebulously recapping a day of consultation with a data-analysis firm and a presentation from media consultants.
 
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The timetable as it looks now from the above article:

Bowlsby said consultations will continue and data will be analyzed at least until conference leadership reconvenes June 1-3 in Phoenix.

“I think it’s probably fair to say we have a little bit of a stake in the ground — perhaps it’s wobbly, but it’s a stake in the ground for some fairly expansive reports at the May meeting,” Bowlsby said. “I expect that will be a big data dump for us, and also a big discussion on a variety of topics. You all know what those topics are, and as we’ve said before, I think they are interwoven in ways that are inseparable. You’re dealing with one, you’re dealing with all.”

Bowlsby said the data-analysis firm presented variations Thursday on what the league might look like with 10 or 12 members and a championship game.

 
and this from Bowlsby:
But Bowlsby did acknowledge the inherent challenges the Big 12 faces.


“The conference championship game in itself is not a big deal,” Bowlsby said, “but combine that with no network and the fact that we are smaller, we need to be mindful of the situation (and) the delta (between the Big 12 and other leagues).”
http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsext...cle_4271a3bf-b8a3-5f75-9df5-44140cf04cde.html
 
USA Today write up on the meetings:

excerpt:
On Thursday, they were presented with an array of data from the analysis firm Navigate Research and the media consulting firm Bevilacqua Helfant Ventures. They were shown the results from dozens of computer projections modeling the league’s chances of getting into the Playoff. With 10 members. With 12. With a conference championship game. Without one.

With the nine-game round-robin conference schedule. With an eight-game schedule. And so on – 40,000 examples of different scheduling possibilities, according to Bowlsby, with percentage chances of different outcomes.

Kansas athletic director Sheahon Zenger said the resulting discussions were “philosophical.” Bowlsby promised more data-driven reports when the league reconvenes in May and again in June for meetings – and when there might or might not be any voting on any of the big issues.

That will almost certainly be the case Friday, when the presidents meet. They’ll be presented with the same analyses. But there’s going to be some significant discussion, and probably more than the athletic directors had, on the largest topics. Although Bowlsby said expansion is not an agenda item, there will be a report from the three-member composition subcommittee – Boren along with West Virginia president E. Gordon Gee and Baylor president Ken Starr. Boren will likely make the same arguments privately he’s been making in public. Gee also is on the record as favoring expansion. And then they’ll all agree to talk some more in June.

“I don’t think there will be any action taken on our multimedia rights, a championship game or any of the other things,” Bowlsby said.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/big12/2016/02/04/big-12-meetings-answers-future/79851446/
 
Dallas Morning News on the meetings:
excerpt:
The Big 12 is taking a hard statistical look at its future in ways that will impact the return of a football title game, possible expansion and a conference television network. The goal: having the information to take the next step in making a decision.

The conference is hopeful about receiving the information in time for its spring meetings, May 31-June 3 in Irving. Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby called it a "bit of stake in the ground."

Basically, the meeting of the conference athletic directors on Thursday and the league board of directors Friday serves as a prelude.

http://sportsday.dallasnews.com/col...ics-deciding-title-game-conference-tv-network
 
BIG 12 meetings today:

Schulz said Big 12 leaders are open to exploring all options. They want to work together.

“There are still a diversity of opinions on lots of issues that you all are most interested in,” Schulz said. “Size, championship game and network opportunities, and all those sorts of things. I feel we are converging and I feel we are getting really excellent data and information from some of the very best consultants out there.

“We are taking our time so that at the end of the day, when we are done with whatever the package of things look like, we want there to be a 10-0 vote and for all institutions to say, ‘We think this is the best for us.’ That takes a little time to get there. But that’s the direction we are moving in.”


Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/kansas-state/article58718638.html#storylink=cpy
 
Interesting write up about today's meeting, silencing Boren but addressing Boren's points as well:
excerpt:

Theoretically, that means no more hour-long diatribes, like the one Boren delivered after a Jan. 27 regents meeting in Norman, Okla., about all that ails the Big 12. It also means no action on key issues that divide the league until the spring meetings (May 31-June 3), at the earliest. That is when consultants are scheduled to present their findings.

Until then, league administrators will continue to battle a national perception that they direct policy in the nation’s most unstable Power 5 conference. Schulz said that image “drives me bananas.”

But it’s well-earned.

It’s an unofficial statistic, but I’m guessing the Big 12 leads Power 5 conferences in money paid to consultants over the past five years. I’m certain that, in the same stretch, it leads all Power 5 leagues in former members (four) and acrimony.

This much is clear: Boren is strident in his beliefs, has at least one ally on the expansion front (West Virginia president Gordon Gee) and seems determined to keep raising his concerns until they are addressed in a vote of league CEOs. He’s also on target in his belief that the league would benefit from a CFP standpoint if it had at least 12 members and a championship game in football.

That is the model for the other four leagues in the Power 5 mix. It is clear, based on voting habits, that CFP selection committee members value that apples-to-apples comparison among top teams from elite leagues when seeding participants in their four-team bracket each December.

If that was not the case, the winner of the Big Ten championship game would not be 2-for-2 in passing the Big 12’s best team in the final set of CFP rankings in both years of the playoff’s existence.


Read more here: http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/college/big-12/article58747303.html#storylink=cpy
 
WVex-pat in GA said:
Yaawwnnn, and I'm sure you'll be all over it until then and beyond. And then nothing will happen again.
Click to expand...

See there's this magical thing you can do if you aren't interested in something...... DON'T READ IT!

But then stupid is as stupid does.......
 
WVex-pat in GA said:
Yaawwnnn, and I'm sure you'll be all over it until then and beyond. And then nothing will happen again.
Click to expand...

There will be review and talks about the data being gathered. There will be unofficial straw votes on expansion and CCG. Official votes only take place if the straw votes shows issue will pass. If there aren't enough votes to pass, the official word will be, nothing was done during the meeting. We will continue to talk with out partners and gather information for the next meetings.

BTW, if it upsets you so much, why do you go out of the way to read the posts
 
Buckaineer said:
See there's this magical thing you can do if you aren't interested in something...... DON'T READ IT!

But then stupid is as stupid does.......
Click to expand...
Mountaineer Steve said:
BTW, if it upsets you so much, why do you go out of the way to read the posts
Click to expand...

To answer you both: Because some jackass keeps clogging up this board with this crap, including endless posts about expansion, until there is nothing else to read on here.
 
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WVex-pat in GA said:
To answer you both: Because some jackass keeps clogging up this board with this crap, including endless posts about expansion, until there is nothing else to read on here.
Click to expand...

And to answer you, some jackass can't see or count because on page 1 alone there are over 30 threads created by different people and even the expansion related threads are created by different people and total maybe five if that.

Meanwhile some asswipe is on this thread and others doing nothing but trolling and making moronic statements--and its not anyone talking about expansion, its the dumbass bashing people for having discussion on a board that exists for discussion because he doesn't want someone else to discuss something.
 
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Buckaineer said:
And to answer you, some jackass can't see or count because on page 1 alone there are over 30 threads created by different people and even the expansion related threads are created by different people and total maybe five if that.

Meanwhile some asswipe is on this thread and others doing nothing but trolling and making moronic statements--and its not anyone talking about expansion, its the dumbass bashing people for having discussion on a board for discussion because he doesn't want someone else to discuss something-again on a board for discussing things like exactly he can't stand.

What a moron.
Click to expand...
WVex-pat in GA said:
To answer you both: Because some jackass keeps clogging up this board with this crap, including endless posts about expansion, until there is nothing else to read on here.
Click to expand...

Here are the facts that are Hard to argue with. There appear to be just 4 post on page 1 that has anything to do with expansion. Only 2 of those threads have any realy activity. Personally I would like to see just one thread on B12 expansion, but I don't always get my way. However to say these threads "keeps clogging up this board with this crap" means you have zero concept of a clog, or are presenting a bold face lie.

Again, there are just two threads at the top of the board about expansion. Stop opening them if it causes you so much pain.
 
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