The Big 12 got the vote they wanted, they can now hold a championship game with only 10 teams. Adding teams to the Big 12 does not make sense here, this is because they fought so hard for this ruling. BYU would be the only team even worth adding if the Big 12 does add any teams. Texas has to see that their network is a failure and cut the losses now. I think right now P 12, Big 10 , ACC and SEC are now looking at the Big 12 and seeing how cool it is to have 10 teams and play a round robin. The Big 10, SEC, Pac 12 and ACC still have issues with 14 teams not all teams play each other or if you lose the championship you could be out of the playoffs just that quick. Guys being a LSU Tigers fan I can tell you adding two teams from The Big 12 to the SEC was a knee jerk reaction, I feel at this time being 14 teams hurts us because LSU wants to play Auburn, FLA and other teams we used to play before going to 14. Big 10 and PAC 12 and ACC are not doing that good as it appears yes they make alots of money, I feel the power is gone because teams just play each other that would be great match ups at the right time. Big 12 is lucky to now be able to have a championship game with only 10 teams. Guys count this as a blessing and stop saying we need to add two more teams. Why? The Big 12 would become watered down and even helping WVU by adding teams from the west one side of the Big 12 would the power while the other one is weak. I highly doubt the BIg 12 would break up OU vs OSU or Texas vs OU those games are big draws. Baksetball in the Big 12 is showing to be the best why add teams, this is not broke I hope the Big 12 see's that they are in the cat bird seat, they have less headaches with only ten teams..
Big 12 is in the catbird seat here
- Thread starter LSUTigersRoar
- Start date
One should ask why an LSU fan cares what the BIG 12 does. One might surmise its because this person understands that the remote possibility of luring BIG 12 teams to his/her conference goes down astronomically with BIG 12 expansion so they do not want that to happen.
WVU and the BIG 12 benefit from expansion. Other conferences may benefit from BIG 12 inaction.
WVU and the BIG 12 benefit from expansion. Other conferences may benefit from BIG 12 inaction.
Even though im for adding two teams. I also realize there are very few choices available. Now that a CCG can be played even though the Big XII has only ten teams, expansion is not a priority.
I also think the round robin scheduling is the absolute best compared to the other P5 conferences. The reason you mentioned in regards to certain teams only meeting up periodically is a unfortunate side effect of big mega conferences.
WVU has already lost its yearly rivals. Hate to see yearly games with the likes of Texas, OU, oSu and Baylor become semi annual.
I also think the round robin scheduling is the absolute best compared to the other P5 conferences. The reason you mentioned in regards to certain teams only meeting up periodically is a unfortunate side effect of big mega conferences.
WVU has already lost its yearly rivals. Hate to see yearly games with the likes of Texas, OU, oSu and Baylor become semi annual.
Expansion is a must for the conference for its future. It can't be more clear that its necessary and the president of Oklahoma has let it be known that there will be expansion and efforts to strengthen the conference or the future of the conference is in jeopardy.
Round robin is ok, but it isn't doing anything to help the conference--just guaranteeing losses while others reap the benefits of skipping out on playing other members in certain years.
WVU needs football wins and missing a Baylor or UT every now and then will be beneficial. The round robin just has BIG 12 schools beating each other up--and out of the playoffs.
Better recruiting, a larger footprint, more financial options in the future, more political clout in the world of college sports with more areas caring and speaking up on behalf of the BIG 12--extremely critical to future success. Every other conference has been proactive and the BIG 12 is quickly falling behind.
LSUTigEER, good comment so thanks for participating in our forum.
One big thing that I don't understand about the SEC is the schedule between divisions. I mean I understand how it works with one permanent cross division rival and then a rotation on the other. But why does the SEC insist on 8 conf games when everyone else has gone 9?
SEC could remedy one of you points by going to 10 conf games, 2 permanent and 2 rotations if they wanted to. The SEC may be the strongest FB conf, but it has the weakest schedule.
One big thing that I don't understand about the SEC is the schedule between divisions. I mean I understand how it works with one permanent cross division rival and then a rotation on the other. But why does the SEC insist on 8 conf games when everyone else has gone 9?
SEC could remedy one of you points by going to 10 conf games, 2 permanent and 2 rotations if they wanted to. The SEC may be the strongest FB conf, but it has the weakest schedule.
Because the Big 12 is smart not to rock the boat, Guys we have no rights or exit fees in The SEC if a team wants to leave so be it. All I was saying is the Big 12 has less headaches with only 10 teams. If the Big 12 does add teams I am happy for you guys. I am not a troll trying to make points here please do not take offense or think otherwise thank you
I believe Boron's concerns were more directly related to the CCG than anything else. In fact, as the OP suggests, playing a full round robin AND a CCG actually puts us in a Better Position than these other conferences. We now can boast our One True Champion mantra and not look foolish in doing so because the winner of the CCG will be the true Champion having played Every Team AND a CCG against the other top team. This was a great outcome for the league. Adding BYU is a sure bet, the others are not and it would be difficult to form two strong divisions without disrupting some great rivalries. We are in great shape.
The constant drumbeat for expansion from one member smells a little rotten. I used to participate in forums where people would discuss buying and selling stocks. There were always people engaging in pumping a stock with incessant posts about how great a stock was going to be. Feels similar, could just be obsession I guess but I've had employees with less focus and dogged determination on a single issue. Even if the Big12 does decide to expand, it could be years away. Could be a long wait.
You can't have a round robin if schools leave the conference and if the conference doesn't expand chances of that rise dramatically.
Having a ten team rematch just makes getting a playoff berth more difficult.
Having a ten team rematch just makes getting a playoff berth more difficult.
if there is one thing the Big East experience taught us.... expansion can not be reactive. if the big 12 doesn't begin to think long term (ala the acc) it will go the way of big east. the answer is clear to forward thinkers...add some eastern schools and help them develop into b12 material. but it's not so obvious to most, alas very few humans have the ability to think long term
One should ask why this post bothers someone so much. One might surmise its because said poster understands that the remote possibility that the BIG12 got exactly what it wanted with latest vote, and that expansion has been put on the back burner for now which totally goes against said posters prophecies he/she has been preaching for over 3 years.
The great news is the BIG12 has all options on the table. Stay at 10, play a CCG with round robin play, or expand to 12/14 teams split into division and have a CCG. It is great that expansion is not being forced for now and that the BIG12 can work with the TV partners to make the correct moves
Actually Boron was very upset with the vote passing. He is still on the war path regarding expansion. Once again, he acted like a little child who took his ball home when he did not get what he wanted. He should act like a leader and work toward his goals within the conference instead of acting out in a public forum which only hurts the conference.
In the end it won't be message boards deciding if the conference adopts Borens comprehensive plan it will be presidents, chancellors and AD's listening to facts and figures and working things out. Some have their heads buried in the sand that things will just magically work out, or have duped themselves into thinking a P5 conference will collapse. The conference leaders surely understand the real disadvantage and the need for a plan to put the conference on equal footing. The league will let us know - Meeting scheduled for Feb 4th and 5th.
Boren hasn't acted like a child, he has taken a leadership role to save the conference from some groups of people that want to sit back and watch the world go by. The conference has to address issues, everything is not ok or close to ok. The long term success of the conference and its schools including WVU is at stake. Undoubtedly Gordon Gee will also advocate for expansion which is necessary.
Sure he did, he was not happy with the vote and the fact that expansion was not forced in the conference. For that reason he went went crying like the little bit3h he is to the media. It is his opinion the conference needs to expand but apparently not all presidents feel this way or expansion would have occurred. Airing the leagues dirty laundry in public forum is not acting like a leader, it is acting like a spoiled brat throwing a temper tantrum for all to see These type actions are the ones that destroy a league not build it up. Even Gee, who supports expansion as much as anyone else, understands Boren is not handling this correctly.
Texas President on Boren's latest rant
http://www.mystatesman.com/news/spo...s-clout-bold-big-12-thinking-essential/np6YY/
On the contrary, any effort to stage a phony "conference-championship" game after playing a full round-robin schedule is the very definition of "foolish."
I plan to send Boren a double bucket of pickles. This might take a few days since I have to get word to TorontoEERs.
This is a serious issue that directly impacts the university Boren runs. There are people in the league still pretending the conference is at no disadvantage and that nothing needs to change. Meanwhile conference schools are beginning to fall behind in revenues, the BIG 12 has the toughest road toward making playoffs and the smallest footprint of anyone. Competitively against other conferences things aren't going well.
TV ratings could be higher.
Continuos improvement is necessary and others have done just that. It's not as though the conference can do nothing the next ten years and magically they'll get a better contract.
Boren didn't rant- he let everyone know it's time for the BIG 12 to solidify its future or that future isn't likely to include OU. It isn't going to do anyone good to watch that happen only to see UT walk afterwards either. This is a conference of ten schools not just UT.
You are 100% correct, the BIG12 conference got exactly what they were looking for in the changes to the CCG rules. I find it funny as hell that the conference that first touted deregulation, (the ACC) voted this town. The BIG10 really gave a big FU to the ACC, when the added the new 10 team rule adjustment.
Now the BIG12 can play it anyway they want. For now they will hold a round robin conference championship game and see how things unfold. New CCG TV rights alone is estimated to be worth 25-30 million a year, with another 5-10 million stadium deal. Without expansion that is another 3-4 million dollars payout to each program. Bowlsby had indicated that Conference payout will reach 44 million per team by 2024. With a 10 team CCG this amount will reach as high as 47 million per school
LSU OP is right.
Even though it stumbled into it, the Big 12 got it right: Every team plays all the other teams. It really is a true champion.
Look at Iowa. Got into the Big 10 title game even though it was the No. 4 team in the conference because it didn't play the top 3 teams during the regular season.
Can you imagine how easy it would be for WVU to get to Big 12 title game if it didn't play Oklahoma, TCU or Bsylor? But what would it mean? Then get demolished? Pshaw!
The Big 12 has the best setup. Even in basketball. Play all 9 schools twice, 18 marvelous games that TV is drooling to cover.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Even though it stumbled into it, the Big 12 got it right: Every team plays all the other teams. It really is a true champion.
Look at Iowa. Got into the Big 10 title game even though it was the No. 4 team in the conference because it didn't play the top 3 teams during the regular season.
Can you imagine how easy it would be for WVU to get to Big 12 title game if it didn't play Oklahoma, TCU or Bsylor? But what would it mean? Then get demolished? Pshaw!
The Big 12 has the best setup. Even in basketball. Play all 9 schools twice, 18 marvelous games that TV is drooling to cover.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
With third tier rights, (three schools getting over 7 million a year including WVU) the BIG12 isn't close to falling behind. They are way ahead of the PAC and ACC, and are on par with the SEC, and it remains to be seen where they will after the BIG tv contracts. And now with TV and stadium rights the BIG12 is about to receive another 3-4 million dollars million per school for a 10 team CCG.
The PAC 12 network is a disaster, and the ACC network isn't likely to get off the ground until the next TV rights contract. The BIG12's per team payout is and will remain far ahead of these 2 conference through.
Boren's opinion is the BIG12 needs to expand. It does not make it a fact just because it lines with yours. Texas is not the only program to believe the BIG12 should remain at 10 for the time being. If they were the BIG12 would have already expanded. Again that is just their opinion, and it does not make it fact. Just like It does not matter how many times your post your opinion, it does not make it any more true. Only time will tell if the BIG12 will be hurt or helped by staying at 10. The great news, is if the BIG12 stays at 10, and there is problem, they can still expand. Once they expand they can't go bake
They would be crazy not to let this play out for a year or two. Playing a 10 team CCG is an experiment but not one they are committed to if it does not work out. If they add more teams, that is pretty much forever. Getting rid of teams would be more difficult than getting a divorce from The Capos ugly daughter and living to eat your cannoli. If you ever did get a chance to add two teams you really wanted then the league would have to go to 14. Can't wait for the Big12 to meet, hash it out and decide. The Big12 probably wishes they could just trade WVU for somebody closer that does not create pressure to come further east. They won't get rid of us for a long time though.
Taking your thoughts a step further; UNC made it to the ACC title game with just 1 loss that occured at the start of the season. Even if UNC had won the ACC CCG, they still would have been on the outside looking in, because they played in the amazingly weak ACC coastal.
As usual, Steve, you add valuable fodder to my post. I think it's stupid for the Big 12 to mess with something that is bringing each school $30 million (going to $40 million before the TV pact ends). It doesn't make sense. I LOVE seeing 4 or 5 Big 12 teams in Mountaineer Field EVERY year. We used to be thrilled to play those teams once every 5 to 10 years. As many companies find, expansion can be a killer and not always a bigger fortune. Common sense. But, then, I'm a West Virginia native from Monongah and the son of a coal miner. Common sense is a big commodity at our Church Street home, 3 doors down from the late Coach Jim Feltz, who won two state football titles for Monongah High, then watched his son Jay win a third as quarterback when Feltz had moved up to Fairmont school administration.
They'll be crazy if they do fall for this nonsense.
Nobody on this Earth can name one legitimate reason in the world Oklahoma should've had to play Oklahoma St, TCU, or Baylor again this season. The Sooners had already beaten them all.
Or the 2014 season: Why in the living hell should Baylor have to sweep 2 games from TCU to win the conference when the Bears had already beaten the Frogs? It's a punishment for the team that did more all year, and a get-out-of-jail-free card for the team that did less all season. Sports are not supposed to be set up that way. That is absolutely idiotic and asinine in the college game.
championship could only make a modicum of sense in the event of 2 one loss teams. still, i agree with you. the one thing that is for sure... it's clear the b12 does not have a coherent plan and no one has done the hard work of thinking things through.
seems so much like the big eat, it's scary.
I agree with the OP too. In particular, if the cfb playoff expands to 8 (or even 6 as one poster suggested) with each champion of the Power 5 guaranteed a spot, the Big 12 is going to be the envy of all other conferences for the exact reasons the OP laid bare.
Let's see how the $$ per team works out this year.
Lgm!
Let's see how the $$ per team works out this year.
Lgm!
If you are a Mountaineer fan, you had better hope that Texas and Oklahoma come out of this meeting with arms locked singing Kumbaya. The Big12 will survive and thrive if they expand, if they don't expand, if they have a CCG with 10 teams or if they don't. What the BIG12 will not survive is a serious split between Texas and Oklahoma. You had better believe that other conferences would love nothing better than divide and conquer and get these two teams going in separate directions. It would be game over and we would be on the outside looking in again. Bowlsby is doing his best to keep them together and getting nothing but grief. He knows what is at stake.
A real question is why would anyone NOT want expansion?
More money- more fans attending games, watching and caring--more political clout--more positive press. More chances for more victories for everyone. More cohesion with the conference.
Yeah its great Texas has a great deal--but until the conference irons this thing out once and for all--the alleged threat of this school or that school leaving is there. Why would anyone want that? Why wouldn't anyone want all conference members as close to each other in finances as possible? After all as they say you are only as strong as your weakest member. Why would you want some schools struggling with tier 3 deals so that other conferences teams can do better financially if its possible to strengthen everyone?
Why would you not do everything you can to ensure better success in every way?
How would having the two top teams rematch -risking a 50/50 chance of a loss and knocking yourself out of the playoffs and NY6 bowls be better than having at least 12 teams like everyone else does? No one else is going to a round robin schedule--and the BIG 12 isn't going to get credit from anyone for playing one.
What's so great about the status quo which led to TCU and Baylor being left out of the playoffs, OU being dropped a spot? How is it a good thing to have a smaller footprint, and lower tv ratings than others? How is having the best teams knock each other off better than going 13-0 or 12-1 by missing out playing other schools in your conference-which in turn leads to higher rankings, higher tv ratings and a better shot at playoff bowls?
There are many that seem to want the BIG 12 to fail--Oklahoma's president isn't one of them. He is 100% right, the conference needs an immediate comprehensive plan to address its needs, they've wasted enough time trying to approach things as slow as possible and bit by bit.
More money- more fans attending games, watching and caring--more political clout--more positive press. More chances for more victories for everyone. More cohesion with the conference.
Yeah its great Texas has a great deal--but until the conference irons this thing out once and for all--the alleged threat of this school or that school leaving is there. Why would anyone want that? Why wouldn't anyone want all conference members as close to each other in finances as possible? After all as they say you are only as strong as your weakest member. Why would you want some schools struggling with tier 3 deals so that other conferences teams can do better financially if its possible to strengthen everyone?
Why would you not do everything you can to ensure better success in every way?
How would having the two top teams rematch -risking a 50/50 chance of a loss and knocking yourself out of the playoffs and NY6 bowls be better than having at least 12 teams like everyone else does? No one else is going to a round robin schedule--and the BIG 12 isn't going to get credit from anyone for playing one.
What's so great about the status quo which led to TCU and Baylor being left out of the playoffs, OU being dropped a spot? How is it a good thing to have a smaller footprint, and lower tv ratings than others? How is having the best teams knock each other off better than going 13-0 or 12-1 by missing out playing other schools in your conference-which in turn leads to higher rankings, higher tv ratings and a better shot at playoff bowls?
There are many that seem to want the BIG 12 to fail--Oklahoma's president isn't one of them. He is 100% right, the conference needs an immediate comprehensive plan to address its needs, they've wasted enough time trying to approach things as slow as possible and bit by bit.
People have done the hard work of thinking things through. Now they must bring the others on board--hard to do when some can't be reasoned with.
maybe so. like i said above, forward thinking is rare. the ability get others to think ahead, or see anything other than the here and now, is even rarer.
There is going to be less not more money upon expansion. Yes it has been stated that TV $$ will stay the same with expansion. That same money includes having a CCG. With TV and Stadium rights the upcoming CCG with 10 teams is going to bring in 3-4 million more per school. Big12 gets to split playoff money 10 ways instead of 12 or 14, that is another 1 to 1.5 million PER team.
Expansion is not going to happen unless you include a BIG12 network and the LHN is not the only obstacle in the way. Each school has its own third tier contract each with a different end date and different partner. It might be possible to buy these contracts out, but it won't be cheap. This will keep the network from making a profit for several years and will see reduced payout during this period.
Rematch
PAC12 had a rematch this past year and is is more likely to have a rematch each year, yet you don't hear anyone bitching about that
summation
You and I both know if there were enough votes for expansion it would have happened already. It is obvious why Texas does not want to expand, I would like to know why least 2 other programs are not interested.
BIG12 should plan for expansion but do so to coincide with new TV deal and expiration of 3rd tier contracts.
How does adding CSU, Bosie State or any other team to The Big 12 help in any way? BYU is the only team that brings value, other teams that have been talked about bring very little such as Cinny or Uconn. I understand WVU wants to cut it's costs and traveling by having school closer but at what cost? A lot of fans here say Big 12 has to add teams to keep going, again based on what? OU President was speaking if the Big 12 did not get the vote to hold the championship. I think that with all that is happening in College Football WVU fans would be happy having the NCAA seeing it the Big 12 way, Big 10 and Pac 12 plus ACC did not want this they wanted to force the Big 12 into adding teams of no value and there fore making the media rights not worth very much if they had 12 teams than this money each school than is split in 12 ways. Texas, OU and other teams do not want mouths to feed. WVU fans please look at this from a view of watering down Big 12 to having big money now with a championship that will get very high ratings. The Big 12 will be just fine.
The BIG10 did everything they could to help the BIG12 by submitting the amendment to allow the BIG12 to hold a CCG with just 10 team. The only power5 program that voted against this was the ACC, so the other conference were just fine with not forcing the BIG12 from expanding.
I think you mean AAC. They, along with the SEC, vote against the proposal. The ACC was also a proponent of the proposal to try to eliminate divisions, but that didn't happen either.
The ACC and AAC voted against the deregulation proposal. The SEC, Big Ten and BIG 12 voted for it as did the other G5 conferences. The Pac 12 didn't vote.
