Big 12 expansion gets a boost today.
- Thread starter Rootmaster
- Start date
That makes sense. Although, I'm not sure why they had to hire a research firm to conclude that. They could have figured that out just by watching the SEC.
I guess they go with the old saying, you have to spend money to make it.
Just kidding, This is not even the relevant research. What will be key is the $$ behind expansion.
I don't know about the other factors re. ECU and I'm guessing they're not good and that ECU doesn't have a realistic chance to get into the Big 12 but purely in terms of football I think they'd do well. They're in a state that produces a ton of good football players and that doesn't have any football crazy schools in a major conference.
Yeah, NC is ACC-land and there are already four NC schools in a major conference (and two more 1A schools in smaller conferences, App St and UNC-Charlotte) but ECU is a big school where people love football and I think if they were in a major conference their recruiting would be greatly boosted.
Yeah, NC is ACC-land and there are already four NC schools in a major conference (and two more 1A schools in smaller conferences, App St and UNC-Charlotte) but ECU is a big school where people love football and I think if they were in a major conference their recruiting would be greatly boosted.
The Big 12-2=10 (currently) isn't exactly media market wealthy so look for media markets to play the major role.
That has to be the most asinine article I've ever read on ESPN--which is saying a lot.
Any legitimate research firm worth a damn would tell you they could conclude precisely nothing empirical about a playoff that is only 2 years old. By contrast, a shady outfit that isn't worth a damn would take the loot and tell you exactly what they think you want to hear.
Everybody here who was previously concerned about Big 12 leadership ought to be even more worried now.
Any legitimate research firm worth a damn would tell you they could conclude precisely nothing empirical about a playoff that is only 2 years old. By contrast, a shady outfit that isn't worth a damn would take the loot and tell you exactly what they think you want to hear.
Everybody here who was previously concerned about Big 12 leadership ought to be even more worried now.
When I read that Texas has an overwhelming influence on TTU as well as TCU I can't help but laugh. TTU, maybe. Both are part of the same educational system, etc. But TCU is a small (9,000 undergraduates) private Christian university that is totally unaffiliated with the tentacles of UT. TCU will do what it thinks is best for TCU. TCU owes UT nothing.
Sure they would. And how many simulations did you run to come to your conclusion again?
The BIG 12 leadership is doing what they must and its about time. Hopefully they'll heed Bowlsby's advice and make their decisions once all the data is in--no reason not to.
Espn would love for the big 12 to expand, because it will most likely be 2 teams that will hurt the average quality per team in the conference right now. All ESPN has to pressure the committee into listening to them is, well O$U got killed at home in prime time by a 6-6 VT team and were WAY less impressive against common opponent Minnesota, but TCU didn't play a conference title game 13 trumps 12. Bullshart, playing EVERY team in your conference trumps possibly not playing 2 of the top teams in it or more. So if we expand and the new teams are at the bottom of the conference they'll now use our weak conference against us, which now they can't because top to bottom we own most of their precious favorites, especially the big 10
the statistical support to come this conclusion based on only a two year sample and a human selection cmte is not trustworthy and it speaks volumes for the lack of actual evidence around expansion
they should just come out and say hey, our gut says to do it, our members need to be pushed in a direction and one of our members is whining like a little bitch about it, but the little bitch has some major pull
this whole thing reeks of envy, spite and small time corporate warfare
call it what it is - propaganda
they should just come out and say hey, our gut says to do it, our members need to be pushed in a direction and one of our members is whining like a little bitch about it, but the little bitch has some major pull
this whole thing reeks of envy, spite and small time corporate warfare
call it what it is - propaganda
The BIG 12 has to generate more revenues and has to ensure that if their best wins enough they'll be in the playoff. Right now they have no way to boost revenues to keep up with the Big Ten and SEC, and they are disadvantaged in making the playoffs already being left out half the time the playoff has been played and dropped into last place on the final vote behind a Big Ten team that couldn't score a point in its playoff game.
The conference has to address its long term future and expansion, a network and a CCG will all take care of those issues in a comprehensive way.
The conference has to address its long term future and expansion, a network and a CCG will all take care of those issues in a comprehensive way.
Super naive IMO if you think for a minute TCU doesn't play little brother to Texas. We're talkng about Athletics right and Revnue associated with those athletic revenue streams? As in the 10s of millions of more dollars per year that Texas helps TCU bring into the University. We're not talking about curriculum or where to spend those dollars. Come on man get your head in the game.
The biggest problem with expansion at the moment is there isn't any consensus candidates that look appealing. If Notre dame wanted to join the big 12 in football they would get 10 votes tomorrow but that's not gonna happen. The candidates that get the most mention seem to be Uconn, Cincy and Byu. Byu has the most name recognition of the 3 but they would be geographically isolated like we are if your gonna have outliers best to have them grouped together. Cincy would open up more opportunities to recruit Ohio but their stadium is a dump. Uconn would bring the largest tv market and they have had 9 players drafted in the NFL in the past 4 years which would place them near the top of the conference in that category but they lack a long standing tradition in football. Either way no choice is appealing
South Florida or Central Florida would bring opportunities to recruit Florida but im not sure the support would be there for Houston. The market is already served
Apples and oranges, Greg. TTU has several wealthy and generous alumni. How else could a school smaller than Marshall get in the Big 12? Texas has the same amount of control over TCU as they do A&M. TTU I agree with. We'll see come vote time.
The article was not a problem but you are correct about the data. The process has been in place for just 2 years, and as long as you allow the 'eye' test to help make your final decision, there is no way there is enough data.
The most compelling reason to expand is the same reason the B1G took Rutgers and Maryland. Expanded footprint and TV sets. There are clear cut candidates in that regard. How is WVU currently superior to UC except for being in a power 5 conference? In what quantifiable aspect?
Texas am has a big alumni base with a storied history. Houston is pale in comparison
I think if expansion is going to happen it would be best to either base it on Recruiting territory or Tv markets are maybe a mix of Both
http://collegead.com/university-houston-athletic-department-profile-5-key-areas-success/ Look at the new facilities and look at how much better they are and are going to be. They just beat Florida State by 2 scores
I doubt it will be Houston the smaller schools of TTech , Tcu and baylor won't want the competition and the big 12 needs to expand its footprint
I would not regard Nippert Stadium as a dump. Cincinnati has poured 186 million dollars into that stadium in the last ten years and it looks like it too. The facility is completely up to date and while the seating capacity of 40,000 would make it the smallest in the Big-12, TCU and Baylor are only 45,000 and Iowa State and Kansas are only 50,000.
In spite of having just completed an 86 million dollar upgrade in 2015, UC has another project simmering to increase capacity to 52,000 by completing the upper deck in the next 3 or 4 years.
Fifteen years ago when the debate started to improve or tear down and build a new stadium in a new location, I was one of those hoping they would build new. But, what Cincinnati has done to the stadium is amazing. Besides, if there is truly demand for more than 40,000 seats, UC can always move the game to the Bengal's Paul Brown Stadium downtown.
A stadium concern does not exist with Cincinnati.
Politics. Texas is a state large enough that everyone that graduates from one of the university can find a job working in the state. Few leave Texas. All of those private graduates from TCU go into government and other areas of impact. While sports are a religion in Texas, money and political clout are still greater. Texans network with each other and little schools TCU and TT punch well above their perceived athletic weight because of who is a graduate and where they landed in the private and government sectors.
I'm not going to wade into this expansion BS again. I did that in 2015.
I will ask 1 question, do you know the Big XII by laws on expansion ie what it takes to get it approved?
For those who don't, let me tell Ya. It takes a minimum of 3/4 of member schools to AGREE for expansion to get it approved. In simple terms there needs to be 8 of 10 schools agree to expand since there can't be 7.5 schools.
Texas Longhorns -NO
Texas Tech -NO (cause they follow the Longhorns)
TCU - NO (cause they follow the Longhorns)
Baylor - don't know & doesn't matter
At this point it's a moot point and all the yelling is muted.
I don't think it will happen and for selfish reason I say God Bless Texas!!
I will ask 1 question, do you know the Big XII by laws on expansion ie what it takes to get it approved?
For those who don't, let me tell Ya. It takes a minimum of 3/4 of member schools to AGREE for expansion to get it approved. In simple terms there needs to be 8 of 10 schools agree to expand since there can't be 7.5 schools.
Texas Longhorns -NO
Texas Tech -NO (cause they follow the Longhorns)
TCU - NO (cause they follow the Longhorns)
Baylor - don't know & doesn't matter
At this point it's a moot point and all the yelling is muted.
I don't think it will happen and for selfish reason I say God Bless Texas!!
I saw an article today claiming that the big 12 was only 1 school short. Not sure what to think but im skeptical about expansion I'll believe it when I see it
The comparison between West Virginia and Cincinnati doesn't matter. It only matters what Cincinnati can add to the Big 12. It's not good enough for Cincinnati to be equal to this school or that school already in the conference. That is meaningless. The only thing that matters is whether or not Cincinnati adds anything to the bottom line of the Big 12. That's the question that has to be answered.
Specifically getting to your question, you have to remember that when West Virginia and TCU were selected, the Big 12 was replacing, not expanding. There are different criteria for each action. That goes back to my point that it's not good enough for Cincinnati to say, "We are equal to West Virginia in this or that." Cincinnati has to show they can bring in more money to the Big 12. That's what it all boils down to.
Agreed (Believe it or not) Extensive studies are being done to determine that. Gaining a wider audience with significant TVs are paramount, not getting a new team that can come in and dominate. You don't want a new cellar dweller either.
However, going back to one of your earlier posts, a cellar dweller is exactly what the Big Ten got in Rutgers and Maryland. It's also what the Pac 12 got in Colorado.
Yet they still seem pleased with their additions. The SEC certainly got a mixed bag with A&M and Missouri, didn't they? So did the ACC with all of their additions from the Big East. Has any conference expanded with teams that just come in and totally kick ass?
Go big...UCF for Orlando and Florida, BYU for the Morman nation, Cincinnati for Ohio , and Connecticut for New England. Lots of tv sets.
The Big-12 has Texas and Oklahoma; we surely do not need another one of those. Baylor and TCU have been more than most of the Big-12 wants to deal with; we surely do not need another one of those. We have Kansas and Iowa State and everyone wipes their feet on them; we surely do not need another of those. Then we have TT, OSU, KSU, WVU and they form the middle of the pack, although I believe with the right coach, WVU will be more like those above them in time. We can easily accept more teams like these four.
In any given year, BYU, UCF, USF, Cincinnati is going to sweep Kansas and Iowa State and run 2-2 against the middle four and pull an upset of one the upper 4 - sounds a lot like WVU in the past 5 years. None of those possible teams are cellar dwellers.
But, I do believe UConn and Memphis are Kansas/Iowa State level institutions though and they should not be part of this discussion.
I have state all along, we need two new teams that bring in decent TV markets, new recruiting areas and are better than Kansas and Iowa State on the football side. It does not matter who those two are although I prefer them to be east of the Mississippi.
My votes would be Cincinnati and UCF as the best potentials. We have many WVU fans in Florida that can't see their team any other way unless there is a game in Florida. Cincinnati is a drivable game for the mountain state.
