Big 12 Contraction
- Thread starter Soaring Eagle 74
- Start date
Sounds to me like the GOR isn't as stable as one would think if they keep bantering about a move.
Dennis Dodd is determined to end the BIG 12 that is for sure--he has been doing hit pieces on the conferences attempts to adopt comprehensive changes and this just adds to his yellow journalism.
They don't address the grant of rights, just act like it doesn't exist or something. Mostly injecting what they want to see rather than anything coming from the conference.
OUs president Boren has stated his preference is to keep OU in the BIG 12 but it must be a stable BIG 12, not one that is far behind others financially or otherwise and that is why he wants to implement the comprehensive changes. He has said that he'll have to look at OUs situation long term if changes are not implemented.
But this is the problem the league is facing. If comprehensive improvements aren't implemented--what does that mean? Some here and elsewhere are projecting that means everything is fine--but what it probably means is some do have their sights set elsewhere, and we know OU isn't going to be happy with the feet dragging and inaction (again). The conference can't sit for a decade without doing anything and so undoubtedly (bad) things are going to be happening as soon as schools like OU know nothing is going to be done to fix the disadvantages facing the conference.
If Texas blocks these things as some suggest, that also indicates their intentions--they want no changes so that they have the option to go elsewhere down the road if they choose. The other institutions would be foolish at that point to do anything to support UT in anything at the peril of their own schools. They really cannot do that.
They don't address the grant of rights, just act like it doesn't exist or something. Mostly injecting what they want to see rather than anything coming from the conference.
OUs president Boren has stated his preference is to keep OU in the BIG 12 but it must be a stable BIG 12, not one that is far behind others financially or otherwise and that is why he wants to implement the comprehensive changes. He has said that he'll have to look at OUs situation long term if changes are not implemented.
But this is the problem the league is facing. If comprehensive improvements aren't implemented--what does that mean? Some here and elsewhere are projecting that means everything is fine--but what it probably means is some do have their sights set elsewhere, and we know OU isn't going to be happy with the feet dragging and inaction (again). The conference can't sit for a decade without doing anything and so undoubtedly (bad) things are going to be happening as soon as schools like OU know nothing is going to be done to fix the disadvantages facing the conference.
If Texas blocks these things as some suggest, that also indicates their intentions--they want no changes so that they have the option to go elsewhere down the road if they choose. The other institutions would be foolish at that point to do anything to support UT in anything at the peril of their own schools. They really cannot do that.
More opinions from talking heads. They get paid whether their guesses are right or wrong. You know, the schools could independently look at the data and listen to the presentations and decide on their own to vote for against expansion. It wouldn't mean they were supporting UT or Oklahoma just because they come to the same conclusions. Only Texas and Oklahoma can really damage the BIG12. If they decide that they would be better off elsewhere there is nothing the rest of the conference can do to stop it. I think the Big12 can survive with or without expansion, if Texas and Oklahoma want it to survive. If Texas or Oklahoma decides to leave, the BIG12 will be severely weakened but not dead. Without them, you would definitely see expansion. Even a league with OSU, Kansas, KSU, IS, TT, Baylor, TCU, WVU, Houston, BYU, Cincy, and UCF (or other schools under consideration) would have some decent teams and could certainly end up more unified as a conference than the current lineup. They would be viewed as the 5th best conference without a doubt. That would not be the end of the world. None of the scenarios are. Not much point worrying yourself sick about this.
The article in question was written by a 'special contributor' who is likely paid based upon the number of reads and possibly comments generated. The headline is an attention grabber for a compilation of quotes mostly from other writers stating their opinions.
As a former writer, that pretty much covers the credibility for me.
As a former writer, that pretty much covers the credibility for me.
What strikes me as an interesting. The Texas and Oklahoma "fued" has been the catalyst in the past, that drove member(s) out. Nebraska, Colorado, Missouri and Texas A&M all former Big XII members left. Its safe to say the Texas/Oklahoma "issue" helped them in making the decision to leave. IMO
Just like sports talk radio and political talk radio. Stole the fears and angers of the listeners and it leads to getting paid. Got to love a time proven concept.
Maybe not all bad for West Virginia
If the Pac-12 bulks up to the Pac-16 with Texas,Oklahoma,Texas Tech and Oklahoma State (for example), then the other 3 conferences may feel they have to go to 16 members (Four 16 member Conferences). The remaining Big 12 members will all be petitioning the remaining 3 Conferences for membership. I know Kansas (AAU University) will probably want to go to the B1G. Notre Dame at that point may feel compelled to join one of 4 Power Conferences and go to the B1G or ACC. If the ACC would lose 1 or 2 teams, then I think West Virginia would end up in the ACC Conference. Maybe Pitt ends up to be your advocate for admission to the ACC.
HAIL TO PITT!!!!
If the Pac-12 bulks up to the Pac-16 with Texas,Oklahoma,Texas Tech and Oklahoma State (for example), then the other 3 conferences may feel they have to go to 16 members (Four 16 member Conferences). The remaining Big 12 members will all be petitioning the remaining 3 Conferences for membership. I know Kansas (AAU University) will probably want to go to the B1G. Notre Dame at that point may feel compelled to join one of 4 Power Conferences and go to the B1G or ACC. If the ACC would lose 1 or 2 teams, then I think West Virginia would end up in the ACC Conference. Maybe Pitt ends up to be your advocate for admission to the ACC.
HAIL TO PITT!!!!
There is no way Ok and Tx are not looking long term and in their self interest. They are the lynch pins of the conference (unless you like to put your head in the sand.) They, with their name and reach, can stay or go anywhere they want...anytime they want. No so for most of the league including WVU. WVU fans shouldn't be so quick to dismiss chatter as just more media crap. Gee should be leading the charge to immediate conference expansion to solidify the Mountaineer's athletic future as much as possible. WVU has been overlooked by the ACC and SEC too many times to be pollyanna about the future and think that invites might be coming if the Big 12-2=10 crumbles. Seems to me that a lot of topics are being discussed in the backrooms of Tx and Ok and staying at ten schools in a regional conference isn't one of them. Add teams now or start the countdown to WVU being the Eastern version of Boise State football. Push for four and the market coverage insurance that it brings....Cincinnati (Great Lake states),UCF (Orlando and Florida), BYU (national), and Memphis (mid south).
The GoR is an iron wall, but there is a detail many miss.
It taxes 75% of the conference to vote YES to do something like expand, which effectively means 8 of 10 must vote yes. That has been Texas' ace in the hole on this.
However, it only takes a simple majority i.e., 6 out of 10 to disband the conference and thereby eradicate the GoR.
If I were Bob Bowlsby, I would give the conference presidents and chancellors all of the research on proposed changes that have been studied on day one of the meetings. Then I would announce a vote for the following morning to disband the conference, telling the administrators, " Assume the Big 12 will no longer exist this time tomorrow, get on the phone and find out what your guaranteed options are. We'll know in the morning if staying in and improving the Big 12 is your best situation."
Then take a vote and let the chips fall where they may. If the vote is to maintain the conference, progress on improvements may finally be made. If they vote to disband that is really what is in at least six of the schools' best interest anyway. I would be surprised if they would vote to disband, but if they did at least the craziness would be over. It's like a disgruntled spouse, if they want to leave you can't nor would you want to stop them.
Then take a vote and let the chips fall where they may. If the vote is to maintain the conference, progress on improvements may finally be made. If they vote to disband that is really what is in at least six of the schools' best interest anyway. I would be surprised if they would vote to disband, but if they did at least the craziness would be over. It's like a disgruntled spouse, if they want to leave you can't nor would you want to stop them.
That would never happen, but it would be nice to find out where school administrators preferences and intentions lie. A couple of prima donas may make phone calls and be disappointed in the results. If you don't take care of today, tomorrow does not matter.
The university we owe to getting into the Big12 is Texas. Ou wanted Louisville.
However, the university that is killing the Big 12 is unfortunately also Texas.
However, the university that is killing the Big 12 is unfortunately also Texas.
I don't believe WVU owes any other school in the Big 12.
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Food for thought.. ...WVU most likely has two or three more votes (to join the ACC) that would go our way if the Big 12 dissolved.
And the reason Texas allegedly owns TCU's vote should be the same for WVU, should it not? So UT effectively controls Texas Tech, TCU and WVU's votes regarding expansion, correct?
Wouldn't it be ironic if Pitt became WVU's savior in the future? Whoa, that's just too weird!
That will never happen. Pitt would vote against us and so would Syracuse IMO.
Rumor had it that Va Tech voted against us and we were the ones that helped them into the Big east if I am not mistaken.
Dirty bastards! Everyone has their own agenda, don't they? The only thing WVU can do is continue to improve academics and become AAU, start kicking ass on the football field and build a reputation as a very tough out. Also rebuild the Caperton Indoor Practice facility. (Marshall's is even better)
I can remember when it was being built and so many people said if we're going to build it, build it right the first time. What a cluster F***.
F Oklahoma and Texas. Let them leave and take Oklahoma State and Texas Tech with them. Either the Big12 rebuilds itself into a conference with BYU Houston Memphis Cincinnati Temple UConn UCF ECU or the other P5 conferences pick the rest of the Big12 leftovers and WVU end up where it belongs, the ACC. If the latter happens no way the ACC passes on WVU again. Im getting tired of worrying about if Oklahoma and Texas want to leave the Big12. If they are dead set on it then its going to happen. Either way WVU will be fine.
The Big12 had a chance to make it right the first time by adding WVU, Louisville and Cincinnati but F'd that up. Nobody to blame but themselves.
Vault...Why would an already bloated ACC WANT WVU? For what reason except our egos? In addition, the ACC has repeatedly rejected WVU since the ACC began by a group of Tobacco Road schools breaking away from the old Southern Conference in 1953 (leaving the Mountaineers to play teams like Washington and Lee, VMI, Richmond, The Citadel and William and Mary.) They still see West Virginia as traitors to the Confederate cause by splitting from Virginia in the Civil War LOL. They do not want WVU...have repeatedly said so...and don't need WVU. We don't deliver a new market or enough national clout. The hope for WVUs athletic future lies with an expanded Big 12-2=10 with Ok and Tx in the field...or some hybrid P5 conference with Big 12 leftovers and big market members of the current AAC.
Pretty much how I see it too. Either way is good for me. If third best conference isn't good enough for Texas and Oklahoma, maybe we will finally find stability in the fifth best conference. Less money but we wouldn't be jacked around all the time, and we like playing with a chip on our shoulder.
Interesting thought but I can only see 5 schools max ever voting for that, and 5 would be a real stretch. Baylor, TCU, WVU, Iowa State and Kansas State have no place else to go - they are no votes all day long. TT and OSU long shots maybe, Kansas maybe. Texas maybe, maybe not because it is their golden goose. Oklahoma the most likely but still a maybe. Have they really thought this through in Norman?
If Texas plans to the leave the Big 12 then I guess they must be willing to give up the longhorn network. No other conference would allow it unless their goal is to be independent.
No need to watch soap operas. The Big 12 story is more captivating. Unfortunately, for WVU, also a major snakepit. IF Texas and Oklahoma leave the Big 12, WVU doesn't have Oliver Luck to get us into a Power 4 or 5 conference. We'll be at the Cincy and UConn level. Cobbling remnants of C-USA and Big 12 is a desperation measure that won't change the power alignment much either. WVU's best hope is that the Big 12 stays together with Texas and Oklahoma. Love 'em or hate 'em, UT and OU are the key to WVU's future sports program success. I don't like it, but I also didn't like the Big East basketball schools destroying the football part of the conference. It was a case of cutting off their nose to spite their face. Plus, I would miss the $30 million a year that WVU gets. I would hate to go back to $10 million, like the Big East days. That would hurt financially.
If the Big implodes....................so be it. WV can go back to independent status and then join the ACC when the dust settles. I can tell you this for sure...............Texas and Oklahoma will always have a place to play their game. They are big money schools and conferences salivate over them. Well, maybe not Texas. They insist on using their name and money as the trump card. Folks getting tired of the bully!
Independent status used to be a good thing...once upon a time for WVU. Sped the transition from a team that played the VMIs of the world to a bigger stage. But in this day of media dollars and cost glut for football programs...not so much. Look at BYU...school with national profile...they are focused on getting into the Big 12 as schedules tighten and media dollars tighten as well. Even ND grabbed a partial conference deal with the ACC. If the Big 12 doesn't get its expansion act together and the big two of the conference take their profile elsewhere, WVU has serious issues. Not holding my breath that the ACC would reverse an anti WVU stance.
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How far behind the SEC and B1G do the financial models project OU and Tx will fall? They are both in the current top 8 according to USA Today and OU cleared 11 million after expenses. I realize the conf networks are going to start creating some separation but I wonder how drastic they anticipate it's going to be? I have a feeling this is more about being upset by what the neighbor has (LHN) and less about being able to stay competitive financially and on the field.
We have Notre Dame and Trangreasie to blame for that mess. He never did have the balls to tell the Golden Domers to $hit or get off the pot.
Amen to that. If I have $30 million and you have $40 million we are both still very multi-millionaires. The country club and major restaurant suckups are going to treat us the same. Who knew A&M had passed UT by so much? Who cares?
In what kind of world would Texas,Oklahoma,Texas Tech and Oklahoma State leave the Big 12 to go to the PAC now? That would be a step down and Texas would still lose the LHN. The bride left the groom at the alter in 2011(?) So the PAC would demean it's poor self by inviting them again?
If nothing changes with the current four teams playing for the title, I can see the Big XII being gobbled up by the Pac 12 (Texas, Texas Tech, OU, OSU) BIG (Iowa State, Kansas State, and Kansas) SEC (Baylor, TCU), and ACC (WVU and one school currently in the B1G)
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