BIG 12 championship odds

[Buckaineer]

per CBS Sports--WVU with 4th best prospects

Team Odds
Oklahoma

-125

Texas

+250

Iowa State

+1200

West Virginia

+1200

Oklahoma State

+1800

TCU

+1800

Baylor

+2300

Texas Tech

+2300

Kansas State

+3000

Kansas

+10000

https://www.cbssports.com/college-f...pionship-odds-picks-oklahoma-is-the-favorite/

 

[WVUALLEN]

I figured WVU odds would be higher than that.

 

[locustwv]

That’s surprising!!

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

How in the world could odds makers be more accurate than the fans on the forums?

 

[oceantide83]

How in the world could odds makers be more accurate than the fans on the forums?

Trick question. They can't be.

 

[WVUALLEN]

This is as iffy a proposition as relying upon the intelligence of others, as it can just as easily give rise to the appearance that they caught you as you refuse to be subjected to attack of the killer tomatoes.

 

[TownesVanZandt]

I have said that there is a small chance that Neal Brown catches lighting in a bottle.

West Virginia most likely won't finish tied for third but there is a chance that WV can win 10 games.
More than likely it will be 5-7 wins but who knows.

That OL could become an unit
Kendall could be for real
Young WRs develop. Campbell shows what many thought of him in HS
You do have the RBs

Enough pieces on the DL
The secondary becomes better with a better pass rush.


More than likely Neal Brown will have to rely on the offense to score because you cannot force your will with the OL and the D gives up too many yards and points.

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

I have said that there is a small chance that Neal Brown catches lighting in a bottle.

West Virginia most likely won't finish tied for third but there is a chance that WV can win 10 games.
More than likely it will be 5-7 wins but who knows.

That OL could become an unit
Kendall could be for real
Young WRs develop. Campbell shows what many thought of him in HS
You do have the RBs

Enough pieces on the DL
The secondary becomes better with a better pass rush.


More than likely Neal Brown will have to rely on the offense to score because you cannot force your will with the OL and the D gives up too many yards and points.

I think you are going to see a huge difference in yards and points allowed between the 3 - 3 - 5 and what I call the line of scrimmage defense. If the primary objective is to prevent the offense from reaching the second level there should be a rise in TFL and no gain.

I saw where Jordan Adams is transferring to U Mass. Has a transfer entering the portal from WVU made a lateral transfer yet?

 

[Buckaineer]

Am curious to see how Neal Brown's defenses will do in the BIG 12.

Looking at some conference mates OOC scores and some of WVUs the last couple of years (against teams that were supposed to be from superior defensive conferences)

2018
OU 49 UCLA 21
Alabama 45 OU 34

TCU 10 Cal 7

Texas 37 USC 14
Texas 28 UGA 21

WVU 40 Tennessee 14

2017
OU 31 Ohio State 16
UGA 54 OU 48

TCU 39 Stanford 37
TCU 28 Arkansas 7

USC 27 Texas 24

VT 31 WVU 24


You can see that there's alot more myth about BIG 12 defenses than reality. BIG 12 teams don't always win, but they aren't exactly getting blown out OOC for the most part either. Other conferences defenses have some trouble stopping BIG 12 Offenses.

 

[TownesVanZandt]

I think you are going to see a huge difference in yards and points allowed between the 3 - 3 - 5 and what I call the line of scrimmage defense. If the primary objective is to prevent the offense from reaching the second level there should be a rise in TFL and no gain.

I saw where Jordan Adams is transferring to U Mass. Has a transfer entering the portal from WVU made a lateral transfer yet?

The 4-2-5 has weaknesses as well teams can take advantage of
Art Briles was great at this.

The two hybrid safties are taken advantage of to where they are no longer a factor in the Running game.
What makes the D strong is that it becomes a 4-4 with anything on the LOS.
But when those safties have to play back running lanes open.

The two keys
1) Pressure from the Bandit position
2) Finding two hybrid players that can play the two S positions.

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

It's all a 'pick your poison' on both sides of the ball, is it not? To be strong one place you are sacrificing another. You had better be very good at what you emphasize and at least decent elsewhere. Agree?

 

[TownesVanZandt]

Sometimes it is an identity.

Look at Michigan St. Their identity hurts their offense.

Same with Oklahoma and their defense

Truthfully I think a team should be more like the NFL and be able to play all styles.
This is why PWO programs are important
Neal Brown walked on at Kentucky so he understands how important it is.

You get the FB/ H Back/TE players so you can go big.

Need to be able to have the personnel to go 5 WRs or go 2 Tight ends.

 

[Charleston Mountie]

per CBS Sports--WVU with 4th best prospects

Team Odds
Oklahoma

-125

Texas

+250

Iowa State

+1200

West Virginia

+1200

Oklahoma State

+1800

TCU

+1800

Baylor

+2300

Texas Tech

+2300

Kansas State

+3000

Kansas

+10000

https://www.cbssports.com/college-f...pionship-odds-picks-oklahoma-is-the-favorite/

I will live with whatever record we end up with so long as every game is a classroom for the team and the coaches that goes into the next game, the game after that and so on and into the following season.

 

[sg44gold]

I am still not sold on the Texas QB. I think we could be top three in the conference.

Defense will be much improved.

 

[TownesVanZandt]

Most likely QBs will have to go over the top on West Virginia except if the front is average to below average
I think your DL is above average so to open up running lanes teams are going to need to throw the ball downfield.

Don't know how many QBs in the Big 12 that will be able to.
But there are going to be games that WV gives up 35+ points. Maybe even 45+.

Just not enough players on the defensive side to keep teams from shredding your secondary.

The thing is how many teams put up points and yards will make the difference

Can Austin Kendall and the offense keep pace when needed.

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

It seems way too soon to me to assess the effectiveness of the secondary before fall camp has even begun. In fact it is nothing more than speculation or wishful thinking in regards to pretty much every position. There will be pleasant surprises as well as those who disappoint.

The same could be said of every team unless it is simply a shortage of players or inept coaches. The 2018 games between WVU, Texas and Oklahoma could have gone either way. None of the 3 dominated either of the other 2. To simply hand the B12 title to Oklahoma on a silver platter at this point is very much like saying Clemson had a chance to upset mighty Alabama in a squeeker.

 

[TownesVanZandt]

Like I said every defense has its weakness.

The 4-2-5.
Puts a lot of pressure on the free safety or deep safety because the CBs tend to be on islands and the other two Safties are used to help with the run big time.
Those safties bite on the playaction that deep safety has to cover that ground.

 

[WVUALLEN]

Let's all hire TVZ for the OC job. Knows the in's and out's of every defense and apparently the personal as well. Let's give it up for him.

 

[TownesVanZandt]

If you are interested in something aren't you the least bit curious about how things work.

I am. Try to find out all I can about football. Especially since the game has changed dramatically the last 20 years.
We can all go back into running at each other all game until someone falls. That football worked for Texas as well.
Just wasn't that fun to watch and teams weren't maximizing all their weapons.

 

[WVUALLEN]

Tell me what defenses don't have a weakness? Because I believe they all do in some shape or form. The most important thing to know about a defensive scheme is this. If you don't have the players it won't matter what defense you run.

Now the coach has to find a way to get those players by in to his system and build them up from there. If they don't buy in and if the talent is not there. It can get ugly.

I would rather run VT's version of the 4-2-5 hybrid defense than the 3-3-5. The 3-3-5 is susceptible to the short quick passing game that teams like Clemson, FSU, Miami, etc are great at executing and its poor against power running teams like those of Oklahoma, Texas, Bama, Georgia, etc because of only using 3 DL.

The 4-2-5 can morph into an 8 man front to stop the run, and has 4 DL to get pressure on the QB and the 5 DB's allow complex coverage with very exotic blitz packages. TCU was able to stop Ohio State the year they played by using a 4-2-5 defense.

The 4-2-5 has many different blitz packages too which can be disguised very well. As does the 3-3-5. But the 4-2-5 has a better plan to stop a team from running it down your throat and making you like it. The 3-3-5 could not stop power runs between the center and guards unless they blitzed. Doing this makes you weak against short passes that turn into long YAC plays.

4-2-5 is more or less a 4-3 front, but is a 4-4 front that has morphed into using 4-3 personnel. Most of the time, there is a safety/LB hybrid that is dropped into the box to create a true 8 man front. The reason why they can adapt to spread offenses reasonably well is because of the player they put at the hybrid position. It’s a different approach from VK’s 4-2-5, which dropped one SS into the box, but essentially a 4-2-5 plays like a 4-4 front against any pro-style 2-TE/1-2 back offense.

From what I have found from researching this package is TCU and VT 4-2-5 are set up differently. The primary reason why more teams don’t try to run this type of scheme is because of the inability to find the two swing players however, and you need them to play against spread teams.

All of the 4-2-5 information I researched by googling the 4-2-5 and it gave me information on How TCU and VT have run it for years.

This is going to be an interesting time to look at the differences of 4-2-5 vs 3-3-5.

 

[TownesVanZandt]

4-2-5 works with huge safties that are fluid.


This is if teams can't throw the ball. Those 2 safties that become LBs need to be able to cover quicker WRs.
Think 6-3 220 players that can run 4.5 or less 40's or run around 10.6 or 10.7 100 meters

Art Briles was master at going over the top on TCU.
Baylor was the first team to really expose Gary Patterson and TCU.

A QB like Kelly Bryant...
Could look great

A QB that goes over the top
Not so much.

 

[WVUALLEN]

The differences between a free safety and strong safety have begun to blur over the last year, with both players needing the ability to cover and stop the run. In years past, a strong safety could survive without great coverage skills, but spread offenses have made it a requirement that both safeties be strong in all aspects of the game.

It's important for a safety to be fast and fluid, but all the speed in the world cannot cover up for a safety that cannot quickly and correctly diagnose a play. How quickly they move toward the play—whether that's coverage or the run—and if they make the right move toward the ball. Being able to play the ball in the air and react on time.

Don't care about size or strength. If you don't know what coverage you should be in. Your going to be lost.

On any given play, a safety will be tasked with running the alley to stop the run or turning and running in coverage. More than any position on defense, safeties are constantly moving toward the ball, and they have more ground to cover than anyone else on the team to get there.

There are safeties without great speed, but those players make up for it with exceptional instincts. It's good to have one or the other, but the best safeties in the game have been a combination of instincts and athletic ability.

Generally speaking, what you see is what you get.Safeties do play in different schemes, but they're asked to do things—man and zone coverage. A free safety will take the same drop steps into his backpedal on zone coverage. Same for a strong safety locked up in man coverage. This is what helps make scouting safeties an easier proposition than quarterbacks or cornerbacks.

Size requirements for the safety position can vary depending on which team you ask, but the general rule of thumb is taller than 6'0" and heavier than 200 lbs. That can fluctuate, of course, but your dream safety who never leaves the field has to be big enough to stop the run and cover the field with range.

Scouting safeties often comes down to personal preference. Do you want the 4.3 burner with range and ball skills, or the 220-pound freight train knocking ball-carriers senseless? It's rare to find both in a prospect, and if you do, bet on him being a top-15 pick.