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anyone have a Trane heatpump system?

BigLickMountee

All-American
Nov 10, 2003
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undecided between Maytag or Trane. Both systems are nearly identical in Seer and heat rating, one or two above the Maytag. Warranty is about the same but Trane is $1100 more. I get a return air filter in addition to the main air filtration with the Trane. Not sure this alone is worth the difference. Trane is slightly louder at the compressor, but is away from main living area. The Trane sales person appears a little more thorough. Something to be said for how the information is presented.

Any opinions?
 
Trane (American Standard) is obviously one of the top brands in the industry. I've owned their equipment in the past, and found it good from an operational and reliability standpoint. But at the absolute top end of the HVAC food-chain, I myself happen to prefer Carrier and Lennox (with York in line with Trane). But you wouldn't be making any mistake buying Trane, particularly if you had a history with the installer/dealer.

Meanwhile, Maytag is a brand name from suburban St Louis manufacturer Nortek (formerly Nordyne, until JAN 2015). Nordyne had been well-known for consolidating traditional brand names like Broan, Frigidaire, Gibson, Kelvinator, Philco, and Tappan......and then slapping them on the nameplates of mechanically-identical residential HVAC equipment. Carrier does something similar with their Bryant and Payne brands......American Standard with their Trane and American Standard brands......York with their Luxaire and Fraser Johnson brands......and Lennox with their Armstrong Air brand. My impression has always been that Nordyne quality meets the industry-standard; so for the right price......which should typically be comfortably below the majors......I consider them a fairly safe choice in their own right.

Trane traditionally used their own orange-colored "Climatuff" compressor (not sure that's true anymore); though I'm fairly sure these are/were always traditional Copeland reciprocating designs built exclusively for Trane. Most everyone else in the industry (including Carrier and Lennox and York and Nordyne) uses the black Copeland branded pump. I don't know if Copeland builds their more efficient scroll compressor for Trane under the Climatuff name; your dealer should know (that is, if you're interested).

All US manufacturers use components (compressors, fans, metals, electronics, etc) from the same suppliers. That said, I (and we) used to sell the exact same reversing valve.....the device which makes a heat pump, well, a heat pump......to Carrier, Goodman, Inter City Products (Arcoaire, Comfortmaker, Heil, Tempstar), Lennox, Nordyne, Trane, and York. However, the more premium models of a given brand name offer features/functionality (and efficiencies) that mid-lower models don't.

You're paying largely for advertising.....and to a lesser extent, features......when you buy top-of-the-line (though the newest industry technological developments will tend to originate with the majors).. Don't underestimate the value of a strong dealer; especially one with which you have a history. Don't forget, he's the one who has to run warranty calls on the system; and he doesn't want to come out "for free" (though he is reimbursed by the factory for warranty work) anymore than you want your new System to breakdown. After all, that warranty call is time his guy could be out installing a fully-quoted new installation at much higher profit.

Speaking of warranties......pay very close attention to them for each make; ideally, you'd like them to be as comparable as possible between the proposed systems (and don't forget, the longer warranty is a function of the cost of the System). In this case, if the warranties of the Maytag and Trane units are the same......and you feel good about the Maytag dealer......that's generally a good enough reason to save the money and buy the Maytag. OTOH, if the Trane dealer was more professional, and earned your confidence through their proposal and presentation, that represents its own kind of value......and could be indicative of how they run their business versus the Maytag dealer.
 
I dont know crap about hvac. We have a carrier system in our home and i really like it. The downside is that my dec-feb electric bills were disproportionate.
 
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I dont know crap about hvac. We have a carrier system in our home and i really lkke it. The downside is that my dec-feb electric bills were disproportionate.

Then, I guess it's good you chimed into a thread on HVAC....... :confused:
 
I offered what I know. I wanted to watch the thread so I replied. Sorry gramps.

New week, new boards, same ol' dave.......offering nothing on something he knows nothing about. Listen your grandpa for the last time; oh, never mind........
 
New week, new boards, same ol' dave.......offering nothing on something he knows nothing about. Listen your grandpa for the last time; oh, never mind........

I'm sorry but what does this add to the thread other than reminding everyone that you want to ride my balls? Nobody cares.
 
Trane (American Standard) is obviously one of the top brands in the industry. I've owned their equipment in the past, and found it good from an operational and reliability standpoint. But at the absolute top end of the HVAC food-chain, I myself happen to prefer Carrier and Lennox (with York in line with Trane). But you wouldn't be making any mistake buying Trane, particularly if you had a history with the installer/dealer.

Meanwhile, Maytag is a brand name from suburban St Louis manufacturer Nortek (formerly Nordyne, until JAN 2015). Nordyne had been well-known for consolidating traditional brand names like Broan, Frigidaire, Gibson, Kelvinator, Philco, and Tappan......and then slapping them on the nameplates of mechanically-identical residential HVAC equipment. Carrier does something similar with their Bryant and Payne brands......American Standard with their Trane and American Standard brands......York with their Luxaire and Fraser Johnson brands......and Lennox with their Armstrong Air brand. My impression has always been that Nordyne quality meets the industry-standard; so for the right price......which should typically be comfortably below the majors......I consider them a fairly safe choice in their own right.

Trane traditionally used their own orange-colored "Climatuff" compressor (not sure that's true anymore); though I'm fairly sure these are/were always traditional Copeland reciprocating designs built exclusively for Trane. Most everyone else in the industry (including Carrier and Lennox and York and Nordyne) uses the black Copeland branded pump. I don't know if Copeland builds their more efficient scroll compressor for Trane under the Climatuff name; your dealer should know (that is, if you're interested).

All US manufacturers use components (compressors, fans, metals, electronics, etc) from the same suppliers. That said, I (and we) used to sell the exact same reversing valve.....the device which makes a heat pump, well, a heat pump......to Carrier, Goodman, Inter City Products (Arcoaire, Comfortmaker, Heil, Tempstar), Lennox, Nordyne, Trane, and York. However, the more premium models of a given brand name offer features/functionality (and efficiencies) that mid-lower models don't.

You're paying largely for advertising.....and to a lesser extent, features......when you buy top-of-the-line (though the newest industry technological developments will tend to originate with the majors).. Don't underestimate the value of a strong dealer; especially one with which you have a history. Don't forget, he's the one who has to run warranty calls on the system; and he doesn't want to come out "for free" (though he is reimbursed by the factory for warranty work) anymore than you want your new System to breakdown. After all, that warranty call is time his guy could be out installing a fully-quoted new installation at much higher profit.

Speaking of warranties......pay very close attention to them for each make; ideally, you'd like them to be as comparable as possible between the proposed systems (and don't forget, the longer warranty is a function of the cost of the System). In this case, if the warranties of the Maytag and Trane units are the same......and you feel good about the Maytag dealer......that's generally a good enough reason to save the money and buy the Maytag. OTOH, if the Trane dealer was more professional, and earned your confidence through their proposal and presentation, that represents its own kind of value......and could be indicative of how they run their business versus the Maytag dealer.

thanks for the reply.

I haven't yet settled on which one. I still have a call to the lennox dealer. He was odd telling me at the outset he was expensive and didn't like people calling him to compare pricing with other brands in town.

I was at that game when we beat PSU. Great memory.
 
The Sub-contractor is almost as important as the brand he sells you. We've dealt with every major brand, and at the end of the day, a knowledgeable trustworthy contractor is as, if not more, important.

Like Cool pointed out, in some cases one "Brand" is really no different than another due to the internals. "Toshiba guts...." (SNL reference). I put Heil in my house myself,and have been very satisfied (3 Heat pumps, with Gas Furnace backups). This past winter my thermostats were kept around 68-69 on the ground floor and only once or twice did I have to kick it up to the 70 range or turn on "Emergency" heat.
 
i am thinking about installing a gas insert to help when temps get below 25. The heat pump is great above 25 but nelow that it just runs constantly and it mostly kicks over to aux. heat. I dont know how much it would save. I dont have over 100 dollar electric bills except dec. - feb when they were 200-350.
 
I had a gas fireplace insert with a blower in one house I had in Colorado. That thing put out significant heat and could heat the whole house if needed. Part of that was due to the design of the house, fireplace was in an open part of 2 story house with all bedrooms in sight of it. I wouldn't swear that it would be a cheaper way to heat - forced air gas heat did that very well. It might be an option to consider though.
 
When it comes to residential HVAC, there are few brands I myself am "against"......though, I freely admit I myself would not purchase Goodman (or their Janitrol line) even though I believe their factory warranties are very competitive.

Goodman is generally viewed as a low-end.....or the lowest.....brand best suited for applications where longevity isn't a priority; such as, if you needed a new System but weren't staying in a home long-term (or where environmental conditions, such as in coastal areas, are exceptionally tough on equipment). That said, the brand meets the needs of a certain kind of customer.....mostly, those focusing on lowest first cost.....and they, correspondingly, have become a very large Company.

Beyond that basic caveat, most brands given similar specs indeed will function comparably with one another. But as discussed earlier, it has to be installed right.
 
There's something about Gas heat that I like, and more importantly my wife likes. I had a regulator go bad with my LP tank this winter, when it was down in the 20's, so for a weekend I had no gas backup (also lost hot water and stove top cooking), I had to set each of my systems to run as if I didn't have a gas furnace and let them act solely as a pure heat pump. Surprisingly they were able to keep the house at 67 degrees, which is comfortable for me (wife doesn't like it).

Found out later on that when the gas company install my new tank, they didn't properly clean and flush it, and I kept getting moisture in my regulator outside. It would freeze up and leave me with no gas.
 
There's something about Gas heat that I like, and more importantly my wife likes. I had a regulator go bad with my LP tank this winter, when it was down in the 20's, so for a weekend I had no gas backup (also lost hot water and stove top cooking), I had to set each of my systems to run as if I didn't have a gas furnace and let them act solely as a pure heat pump. Surprisingly they were able to keep the house at 67 degrees, which is comfortable for me (wife doesn't like it).

Found out later on that when the gas company install my new tank, they didn't properly clean and flush it, and I kept getting moisture in my regulator outside. It would freeze up and leave me with no gas.

Not too many people care for traditional air-to-air heat pumps with electric supplemental heating. Heat pumps are extremely efficient in the cooling mode, and also during temperate days down to around 40F (though they don't provider comfortable discharge air temperatures for most users).

But once those electric resistance heating elements kick in for supplemental heat......usually when air temps fall below roughly 37F in this general area of the world......one's electric meter starts spinning out of control. As a result, heat pumps these days can be furnished with a fossil fuel (usually propane) furnace; though, mounting (or burying) one of those LP storage tanks isn't everyone's cup of tea.

Then, there are ground and water-source heat pumps; where a pipe loop circulates a heat exchange medium (usually glycol) either through the ground or beneath the surface of the water.....either of which has a much more consistent temperature than surrounding air. Ground source heat pumps have their glycol loops buried deep enough where ground temperatures are consistently around 55F; an excellent temperature for heat transfer during either cooling or heating mode. I myself consider this to be a very-compelling technology; one which has been proven in many, many applications.

Unfortunately, it's a big job.....potentially (though not always) requiring a lot of space, which most suburban homeowners don't have......to excavate and bury this pipe loop. As a result, ground-source heat pumps have a very high first cost. However, energy savings can provide an acceptable ROI payback for the project if other factors are in place. Arguably, they're most financially attractive in new construction applications.
 
Not too many people care for traditional air-to-air heat pumps with electric supplemental heating. Heat pumps are extremely efficient in the cooling mode, and also during temperate days down to around 40F (though they don't provider comfortable discharge air temperatures for most users).

But once those electric resistance heating elements kick in for supplemental heat......usually when air temps fall below roughly 37F in this general area of the world......one's electric meter starts spinning out of control. As a result, heat pumps these days can be furnished with a fossil fuel (usually propane) furnace; though, mounting (or burying) one of those LP storage tanks isn't everyone's cup of tea.

Then, there are ground and water-source heat pumps; where a pipe loop circulates a heat exchange medium (usually glycol) either through the ground or beneath the surface of the water.....either of which has a much more consistent temperature than surrounding air. Ground source heat pumps have their glycol loops buried deep enough where ground temperatures are consistently around 55F; an excellent temperature for heat transfer during either cooling or heating mode. I myself consider this to be a very-compelling technology; one which has been proven in many, many applications.

Unfortunately, it's a big job.....potentially (though not always) requiring a lot of space, which most suburban homeowners don't have......to excavate and bury this pipe loop. As a result, ground-source heat pumps have a very high first cost. However, energy savings can provide an acceptable ROI payback for the project if other factors are in place. Arguably, they're most financially attractive in new construction applications.
can any heat pump be supplemented with propane?

I added three baseboard heaters in the upstairs area and they are outstanding, but at a price. As Dave stated, the electric bill I had for the months of Jan and Feb were $208 by a kid afraid to use the heat. When I am there even on low/med settling the bedrooms are incredibly comfortable.
 
Yes, pretty much any heat pump that I know of can have a gas furnace install with it. I have mine set to kick in when outside air temps hit 30. Like Cool mentioned in regards to a Geothermal system, upfront cost is a little more, but I use much less electricity than an electric duct heater package. I strongly considered Geothermal, we've had a number of commercial projects use them in the past, but my problem was I would have had to do a vertical system, which would have had me drilling a number of wells, and I just couldn't make it work this go round. I'd much rather install solar instead for now.

Only thing with Propane, gas in general, is there is a cost associated with it. Currently I'm locked at $1.99 per gallon, so when I had to have 500 gallons put into the tank, it hurt the wallet a tad.

I loved baseboard as a kid. It's great heat, but damn it burns the electricity. We had it in my grandfathers house for the past 2 years (We lived there while building) and my wife made the mistake of running it heavy one month. When I showed her the electric bill she shit herself.
 
Yes, pretty much any heat pump that I know of can have a gas furnace install with it. I have mine set to kick in when outside air temps hit 30. Like Cool mentioned in regards to a Geothermal system, upfront cost is a little more, but I use much less electricity than an electric duct heater package. I strongly considered Geothermal, we've had a number of commercial projects use them in the past, but my problem was I would have had to do a vertical system, which would have had me drilling a number of wells, and I just couldn't make it work this go round. I'd much rather install solar instead for now.

Only thing with Propane, gas in general, is there is a cost associated with it. Currently I'm locked at $1.99 per gallon, so when I had to have 500 gallons put into the tank, it hurt the wallet a tad.

I loved baseboard as a kid. It's great heat, but damn it burns the electricity. We had it in my grandfathers house for the past 2 years (We lived there while building) and my wife made the mistake of running it heavy one month. When I showed her the electric bill she shit herself.


HAHAHAHAHAHA!

my wife wouldn't care (nor do I for that matter). It's all for the kid!
 
As Mntneer states, I agree that one can just specify a propane furnace as the main air handler to provide heat. As for the propane service itself, don't forget you have the first cost of the storage tank and the supply piping from the tank to the burner. The regular fuel cost is then obviously added as a separate item.

I also fully agree with his assessment on electric heat; it feels goood until you get the bill. With that in mind, you want to do whatever you can to eliminate the use of any electric resistance heating.....whether supplemental in nature at the heat pump, or as space heaters.
 
Yes, pretty much any heat pump that I know of can have a gas furnace install with it. I have mine set to kick in when outside air temps hit 30. Like Cool mentioned in regards to a Geothermal system, upfront cost is a little more, but I use much less electricity than an electric duct heater package. I strongly considered Geothermal, we've had a number of commercial projects use them in the past, but my problem was I would have had to do a vertical system, which would have had me drilling a number of wells, and I just couldn't make it work this go round. I'd much rather install solar instead for now.

Only thing with Propane, gas in general, is there is a cost associated with it. Currently I'm locked at $1.99 per gallon, so when I had to have 500 gallons put into the tank, it hurt the wallet a tad.

I loved baseboard as a kid. It's great heat, but damn it burns the electricity. We had it in my grandfathers house for the past 2 years (We lived there while building) and my wife made the mistake of running it heavy one month. When I showed her the electric bill she shit herself.

i would go with propane. I assume when you look at an insert that it will be raten on how much fuel it uses an hour?
 
Many companies now will also give you a tank as long as you agree to a year long contract with them. Saves on the cost of the tank. They even buried mine for. So my only initial cost was the first 1000 gallons of fuel. Now, should I decided to switch gas companies, I'll need to purchase the tank from them before hand (an option) or allow them to come out and dig there's up.
 
Many companies now will also give you a tank as long as you agree to a year long contract with them. Saves on the cost of the tank. They even buried mine for. So my only initial cost was the first 1000 gallons of fuel. Now, should I decided to switch gas companies, I'll need to purchase the tank from them before hand (an option) or allow them to come out and dig there's up.

I've never purchased bulk propane before, so I admit I have no idea how these dealers do business. OTOH, it probably does make sense they'd provide the tank at no charge (or perhaps.....as is the case for the bottled water cooler furnished by my dealer......in return for a small monthly rental fee).
 
I've never purchased bulk propane before, so I admit I have no idea how these dealers do business. OTOH, it probably does make sense they'd provide the tank at no charge (or perhaps.....as is the case for the bottled water cooler furnished by my dealer......in return for a small monthly rental fee).

It was a pretty good deal. During Construction I had line itemed about $4000 for a tank with installation, plus about $2000 for initial fill up. But by agreeing to a 1 year term I was able to save $4000. I was told the tank starts to depreciate after installation, so if I choose to buy it from them at the end of the year it would be lease than the purchase price, which was going to be around $2500.
 
It was a pretty good deal. During Construction I had line itemed about $4000 for a tank with installation, plus about $2000 for initial fill up. But by agreeing to a 1 year term I was able to save $4000. I was told the tank starts to depreciate after installation, so if I choose to buy it from them at the end of the year it would be lease than the purchase price, which was going to be around $2500.


I went with the Trane system. Contracting this weekend for it to be installed soon. Thanks for the feedback.
 
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