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What Dems think of police

WVPATX

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Gold Member
Jan 27, 2005
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Rep. Alan Grayson (D-FL)


posted a tweet saying he opposes the militarization of police forces. His message contained a profanity. A photo attached to the tweet showed police officers wearing gas masks and holding weapons, standing next to a mailbox with graffiti that said, “F*** The Police.”



Tweet posted by @AlanGrayson.

The profanity in the photo was noticed by Palm Beach Post political reporter George Bennett.
 
Rep. Alan Grayson (D-FL)


posted a tweet saying he opposes the militarization of police forces. His message contained a profanity. A photo attached to the tweet showed police officers wearing gas masks and holding weapons, standing next to a mailbox with graffiti that said, “F*** The Police.”



Tweet posted by @AlanGrayson.

The profanity in the photo was noticed by Palm Beach Post political reporter George Bennett.
What am I supposed to be outraged about here? I need to know in case I pick the wrong side.
 
If you don't believe that police should have the opportunity to equip themselves as shown in the picture, then I can't help you. Bad timing on your part. Another police officer was killed this time in New Mexico just yesterday.
 
If you don't believe that police should have the opportunity to equip themselves as shown in the picture, then I can't help you. Bad timing on your part. Another police officer was killed this time in New Mexico just yesterday.
Honestly, the only thing I see wrong there is that there aren't 5 people already on the guy with his hands up giving him the once over.
 
If I were an officer in Detroit, Cleveland, Baltimore, Oakland, etc. I would want all the protective equipment I could get. Policemen are there to save lives, including their own. This tweet has it backwards. Officers use this type of equipment because of the dangers posed by criminals. They are to blame for this, not the cops.
 
So, a politician is against the militarization of the police. So what? And somehow you attribute that stance to about half of Americans. What would cause you to do that? You must have meant that this is what one Democratic politician thinks about police militarization, right?
 
So, a politician is against the militarization of the police. So what? And somehow you attribute that stance to about half of Americans. What would cause you to do that? You must have meant that this is what one Democratic politician thinks about police militarization, right?

If you don't believe that a fairly large portion of Dems feel this way, you are mistaken. And the police gear in his tweet is no where close to militarization imo. Let the Dems who feel this way patrol these neighborhood and see how they react.
 
I'm sure that many Republicans feel the same way about the militarization of police.

There may be a few, including Rand Paul, but not nearly as many as the Dems.
 
So, a politician is against the militarization of the police. So what? And somehow you attribute that stance to about half of Americans. What would cause you to do that? You must have meant that this is what one Democratic politician thinks about police militarization, right?
What part is militarization? They are wearing helmets, gas masks, and vests with a mag carriers. Should they not be in cammo? I'm trying to understand the issue here.
 
Focus on the topic not the photo. First off it's WVPATX's topic but this is what is being discussed....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/24/states-police-militarization_n_6932576.html

“You get these pictures that just shock the conscience,” said Republican state Sen. Branden Petersen of Minnesota, referring to news footage of heavily armed police patrolling streets or carrying out sting operations. His bill would bar law enforcement in the state from accepting gear that’s “designed to primarily have a military purpose or offensive capability.”
But Petersen and those backing similar efforts in other states — they’ve come up in California, Connecticut, Indiana, Montana, New Hampshire, New Jersey, Tennessee and Vermont — face an uphill climb, partly because of the way law enforcement acquires the gear.
The equipment flows through a Pentagon surplus operation known as the 1033 Program, which makes available gear that the military no longer wants. Local agencies — including state and local police, and others such as natural resources departments — make requests through a designated state coordinator, who with Defense Department officials, has final say. There’s no federal requirement for state or local lawmaker approval or oversight, and any gear distributed is free of charge. About $5.4 billion worth has been distributed since the program began in 1997.
The program is a key source of tactical equipment, along with clothing (everything from parkas to mittens), office supplies, exercise equipment and appliances. Police say it’s invaluable in providing supplies they cannot afford and gear that can save officers’ lives.
But others call it a shadowy program that lacks oversight and lets police request anything they want, regardless of whether they need it. Some say it even tramples the 1878 Posse Comitatus Act, which prohibits the U.S. military from operating on American soil.
As Petersen put it: “The 1033 Program is a workaround.”
 
Focus on the topic not the photo. First off it's WVPATX's topic but this is what is being discussed....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/24/states-police-militarization_n_6932576.html

“You get these pictures that just shock the conscience,” said Republican state Sen. Branden Petersen of Minnesota, referring to news footage of heavily armed police patrolling streets or carrying out sting operations. His bill would bar law enforcement in the state from accepting gear that’s “designed to primarily have a military purpose or offensive capability.”
But Petersen and those backing similar efforts in other states — they’ve come up in California, Connecticut, Indiana, Montana, New Hampshire, New Jersey, Tennessee and Vermont — face an uphill climb, partly because of the way law enforcement acquires the gear.
The equipment flows through a Pentagon surplus operation known as the 1033 Program, which makes available gear that the military no longer wants. Local agencies — including state and local police, and others such as natural resources departments — make requests through a designated state coordinator, who with Defense Department officials, has final say. There’s no federal requirement for state or local lawmaker approval or oversight, and any gear distributed is free of charge. About $5.4 billion worth has been distributed since the program began in 1997.
The program is a key source of tactical equipment, along with clothing (everything from parkas to mittens), office supplies, exercise equipment and appliances. Police say it’s invaluable in providing supplies they cannot afford and gear that can save officers’ lives.
But others call it a shadowy program that lacks oversight and lets police request anything they want, regardless of whether they need it. Some say it even tramples the 1878 Posse Comitatus Act, which prohibits the U.S. military from operating on American soil.
As Petersen put it: “The 1033 Program is a workaround.”

Clearly Grayson and many, many Dems think the picture in his tweet constitute "military equipment." That's why he posted the picture with his tweet.
 
Clearly Grayson and many, many Dems think the picture in his tweet constitute "military equipment." That's why he posted the picture with his tweet.
Actually it's a little light on military equipment. A better pic would have them clustering around a armored personnel carrier. Also it's one man's tweet, it's not the tweet of many, many Dems lol. You really seem to struggle with the concept of one person speaking for themselves.
 
Actually it's a little light on military equipment. A better pic would have them clustering around a armored personnel carrier. Also it's one man's tweet, it's not the tweet of many, many Dems lol. You really seem to struggle with the concept of one person speaking for themselves.

And you seem to be strugging with the identity of your own party. It is comical for you to claim that a significant percentage of Dems wouldn't identify and agree with his tweet. And you tried to change the topic by posting a Huggington Post article to take away from the idiocy of the tweet.
 
First, Dvldog had no idea what you were talking about so I linked an article that discusses the perceived topic of militarization of police in the U.S. Second, I could give a rats behind about the identity of my party, your party, etc. The use of tired labels and generatizations does not interest me. I just got in the thread to call bullshit on your favorite thing to do which is take one person's comment/tweet and attribute it to millions of other people. You never seem to tire of trying to make that idiotic leap.
 
First, Dvldog had no idea what you were talking about so I linked an article that discusses the perceived topic of militarization of police in the U.S. Second, I could give a rats behind about the identity of my party, your party, etc. The use of tired labels and generatizations does not interest me. I just got in the thread to call bullshit on your favorite thing to do which is take one person's comment/tweet and attribute it to millions of other people. You never seem to tire of trying to make that idiotic leap.

Like I said, millions upon millions of Dems would agree with that tweet. Do you dispute my observation? If you do, you don't know your party as well as you pretend.
 
I'm sure that many Republicans feel the same way about the militarization of police.
I am one who is against it. I am sickened by the paramilitary shift local law enforcement has undergone. Our cops are wearing cargo fatigues stuffed into boots and are sporting rolled up sleeves (to show off their biceps. I guess it is meant to intimidate but the problem is the thugs that it is meant to intimidate don't intimidate that easily. So that leave law-abiding citizens that are put at arms length by this behavior. One of the few things I agree with Obama on is his not wanting DOD surplus used. Think back to "Barney's Motorcycle" episode of The Andy Griffith Show and remember how gung-ho Barney got and how pissed off the citizenry were. This parody, like all parody is based in truth. Today's posturing is a latter day "Barney's Motorcycle" but for keeps. (Don't even get me started on the speed traps on Sunday morning catching hardened criminals on their way to Church or Starbucks). I am white, Republican, and the step-son of a retired LAPD detective and I am unhappy. I can only imagine how INNOCENT people of color must feel.
 
People, some may forget or maybe never knew, police are here to serve and protect. They accept it as a job or calling. The normal expectation is to go home to the family after every shift.

Policemen are not retained to engage in "equal and fair fights". They do not get paid well enough to have a "fair fight" every day. Another thing they are not paid for is to keep them from breaking the law - speeding or stepping on the other side occasionally. They are paid to keep the population from breaking man's laws. They are not policeman's laws, but laws of and by man.

Police are equipped to present more force than the crooks, and they are ordered to use "enough" force to stop the criminal. It is unseemly for an officer to put up his fists and have a brawl. The officer has a night stick to get the upper hand. If the crook produces a knife, the officer will use his side are. Recently, those acting illegally may be pretty heavily armed, and a pistol would not present sufficient fire power, therefore, excess military equipment is being offered to local police departments to enhance their firepower. It may look bad, but until officers misuse this superior equipment, I would suggest the public support their local law enforcement. Administrations should not support their law enforcement to engage in "fair and equal battles".
 
I am one who is against it. I am sickened by the paramilitary shift local law enforcement has undergone. Our cops are wearing cargo fatigues stuffed into boots and are sporting rolled up sleeves (to show off their biceps. I guess it is meant to intimidate but the problem is the thugs that it is meant to intimidate don't intimidate that easily. So that leave law-abiding citizens that are put at arms length by this behavior. One of the few things I agree with Obama on is his not wanting DOD surplus used. Think back to "Barney's Motorcycle" episode of The Andy Griffith Show and remember how gung-ho Barney got and how pissed off the citizenry were. This parody, like all parody is based in truth. Today's posturing is a latter day "Barney's Motorcycle" but for keeps. (Don't even get me started on the speed traps on Sunday morning catching hardened criminals on their way to Church or Starbucks). I am white, Republican, and the step-son of a retired LAPD detective and I am unhappy. I can only imagine how INNOCENT people of color must feel.

Would you volunteer to be the one to tell a wife and her children that they lost their father because you didn't want the cop to have the extra equipment that might have saved his life? Cops can't win. We want low crime rate neighborhoods but we don't want the police to proactively police the hood. We want to feel safe but we don't want the cops to look too scary. We want to walk the streets without fear but we don't want the cops to lock up the bad guys, at least not in the numbers at which they are currently being locked up. Baltimore is a living example. The police have backed off. And the crime and murder rate has skyrocketed. Somehow we are forgetting that the enemy is the criminals and the police are not there to heed the PC culture.
 
People, some may forget or maybe never knew, police are here to serve and protect. They accept it as a job or calling. The normal expectation is to go home to the family after every shift.

Policemen are not retained to engage in "equal and fair fights". They do not get paid well enough to have a "fair fight" every day. Another thing they are not paid for is to keep them from breaking the law - speeding or stepping on the other side occasionally. They are paid to keep the population from breaking man's laws. They are not policeman's laws, but laws of and by man.

Police are equipped to present more force than the crooks, and they are ordered to use "enough" force to stop the criminal. It is unseemly for an officer to put up his fists and have a brawl. The officer has a night stick to get the upper hand. If the crook produces a knife, the officer will use his side are. Recently, those acting illegally may be pretty heavily armed, and a pistol would not present sufficient fire power, therefore, excess military equipment is being offered to local police departments to enhance their firepower. It may look bad, but until officers misuse this superior equipment, I would suggest the public support their local law enforcement. Administrations should not support their law enforcement to engage in "fair and equal battles".

If only the criminals would obey the law and not use illegal weapons or commit heinous crimes. It's shocking that criminals are behaving, well, like criminals. The police are entitled to the full protections that we can legally provide them.
 
Would you volunteer to be the one to tell a wife and her children that they lost their father because you didn't want the cop to have the extra equipment that might have saved his life? Cops can't win. We want low crime rate neighborhoods but we don't want the police to proactively police the hood. We want to feel safe but we don't want the cops to look too scary. We want to walk the streets without fear but we don't want the cops to lock up the bad guys, at least not in the numbers at which they are currently being locked up. Baltimore is a living example. The police have backed off. And the crime and murder rate has skyrocketed. Somehow we are forgetting that the enemy is the criminals and the police are not there to heed the PC culture.
What I want them to do is be my local cop and not a Militia accountable to local officials with parochial loyalty. if our local police have enough people to hand out tickets on Sunday morning in a quiet neighborhood, they have too many people.
 
What I want them to do is be my local cop and not a Militia accountable to local officials with parochial loyalty. if our local police have enough people to hand out tickets on Sunday morning in a quiet neighborhood, they have too many people.

Three police officers were killed just this week. They weren't handing out speeding tickets when they were killed. Bad guys do bad things and the bad guys can have very bad weapons.
 
What I want them to do is be my local cop and not a Militia accountable to local officials with parochial loyalty. if our local police have enough people to hand out tickets on Sunday morning in a quiet neighborhood, they have too many people.
What gives you the idea that the bad guys follow your suggestion to take off Sunday AM? If you elect to not provide police protection at constant days and times, your community is getting ready to have a big hit on Sunday AM.

From personal experience, one of the two most vulnerable times I had as a cop in a major metro - Easter Sunday at 7AM. Two black cops saved the day. They were certainly "brother officers" when needed.
 
Rep. Alan Grayson (D-FL)


posted a tweet saying he opposes the militarization of police forces. His message contained a profanity. A photo attached to the tweet showed police officers wearing gas masks and holding weapons, standing next to a mailbox with graffiti that said, “F*** The Police.”

The profanity in the photo was noticed by Palm Beach Post political reporter George Bennett.

 
What gives you the idea that the bad guys follow your suggestion to take off Sunday AM? If you elect to not provide police protection at constant days and times, your community is getting ready to have a big hit on Sunday AM.

From personal experience, one of the two most vulnerable times I had as a cop in a major metro - Easter Sunday at 7AM. Two black cops saved the day. They were certainly "brother officers" when needed.
Look - my dad was a cop in LA. If you think the average latter day policeman is as citizen focused as in the past you are in denial. Here in north Alabama, at least, there is an increasing alienation of the typical citizen that needs fixing. I am all for "police protection" but certainly not in favor of a local hiding in a cul de sac trying to catch people speeding at 730 AM on Sunday. That doesn't advance public safety in the least. It is to raise revenue. .... you know it , I know it, and most reasonable people know it.
 
Look - my dad was a cop in LA. If you think the average latter day policeman is as citizen focused as in the past you are in denial. Here in north Alabama, at least, there is an increasing alienation of the typical citizen that needs fixing. I am all for "police protection" but certainly not in favor of a local hiding in a cul de sac trying to catch people speeding at 730 AM on Sunday. That doesn't advance public safety in the least. It is to raise revenue. .... you know it , I know it, and most reasonable people know it.

You may well be right, but your beef is not with the officers, it is with the city fathers that are giving the orders to collect more money.
 
Look - my dad was a cop in LA. If you think the average latter day policeman is as citizen focused as in the past you are in denial. Here in north Alabama, at least, there is an increasing alienation of the typical citizen that needs fixing. I am all for "police protection" but certainly not in favor of a local hiding in a cul de sac trying to catch people speeding at 730 AM on Sunday. That doesn't advance public safety in the least. It is to raise revenue. .... you know it , I know it, and most reasonable people know it.
HAHAHA, you got pulled over recently didn't you? I'm 100% with you in that regard. I don't think the argument you are making correlates to the militarization. I think the bullshit speedtraps need to cease immediately and transition those assets to real crime prevention.
 
They have even better tricks out here in Colorado - work zones with no work going on. One stretch of I-25 was under construction for over a year, but they only had people working in that area for a handful of months. You still got the construction zone fines - fines they won't reduce in court either - but no workers were anywhere near the area. Colorado Springs has some of the worst response times for emergency calls to the police also, but they can still have 4 motorcycle cops sitting on a speed trap. The fact that they have motorcycle cops in a place where they can't ride for several months out of the year irks me - poor use of resources in my opinion.

I should caveat that I've had generally good experiences with the police in this town though. I've been pulled over a couple of times, but the stops were legitimate. In my experience, the police have treated me with the same respect I give them.
 
I hate speed traps but a few policemen friends of mine tell me they are under orders. They hate them as much as we do.
 
Look - my dad was a cop in LA. If you think the average latter day policeman is as citizen focused as in the past you are in denial. Here in north Alabama, at least, there is an increasing alienation of the typical citizen that needs fixing. I am all for "police protection" but certainly not in favor of a local hiding in a cul de sac trying to catch people speeding at 730 AM on Sunday. That doesn't advance public safety in the least. It is to raise revenue. .... you know it , I know it, and most reasonable people know it.
I certainly would not question your statement that your dad was a cop in LA. However, I am not sure that you had many discussions regarding the actions of an officer. I certainly hope that it is you misreading the modern day officer. I would have a great belief that they still take an oath to serve and protect and to uphold the constitution and enforce the laws of the US, the state and municipality. Larger departments are compartmentalized and the officers receive specific assignment, such as traffic, accident investigation, detectives, etc. They may cross over at times, but their normal assignment is to that particular department within the force. The agency the officer assigns manpower, and each position is budgeted in the annual accepted budget.

I would be willing to bet that the "sting" that you were caught up in was set up because some citizen lodged a complaint about excessive speed on that street at that time. Seldom do departments have excess personnel to just go out and sit without specific instruction. It would be more likely in the districts where officers just drive around to be seen(show of force) until they get a complaint to answer.

As to the "you know and I know", I would have great reservations about that comment. Officers are not paid from a bounty. I fail to see the incentive for street cops to write tickets. It is a pain in the ass and then the requirement to go to a court date. I have no idea where that revenue goes to, but I feel certain that it does not impact his salary. If you are right in your assumption, the order will come from the mayor, so I would suggest you redirect your animosity toward the person creating the action.
 
HAHAHA, you got pulled over recently didn't you? I'm 100% with you in that regard. I don't think the argument you are making correlates to the militarization. I think the bullshit speedtraps need to cease immediately and transition those assets to real crime prevention.
I didn't get pulled over. I am just seeing it. HSV City and Madison City have overstaffed and are trying to justify it. They put five cars on 72 E at rush hour with another in the woods shooting radar. They know that eveyone on the road then is working and can PAY. I don't blame the cops for this but lay the blame at the local politicos. As for the rank and file, I just wish they would lighten up the tough guy stuff because as I said before, it doesn't intimidate the gang bangers anyway. I am done with this subject.
 
I certainly would not question your statement that your dad was a cop in LA. However, I am not sure that you had many discussions regarding the actions of an officer. I certainly hope that it is you misreading the modern day officer. I would have a great belief that they still take an oath to serve and protect and to uphold the constitution and enforce the laws of the US, the state and municipality. Larger departments are compartmentalized and the officers receive specific assignment, such as traffic, accident investigation, detectives, etc. They may cross over at times, but their normal assignment is to that particular department within the force. The agency the officer assigns manpower, and each position is budgeted in the annual accepted budget.

I would be willing to bet that the "sting" that you were caught up in was set up because some citizen lodged a complaint about excessive speed on that street at that time. Seldom do departments have excess personnel to just go out and sit without specific instruction. It would be more likely in the districts where officers just drive around to be seen(show of force) until they get a complaint to answer.

As to the "you know and I know", I would have great reservations about that comment. Officers are not paid from a bounty. I fail to see the incentive for street cops to write tickets. It is a pain in the ass and then the requirement to go to a court date. I have no idea where that revenue goes to, but I feel certain that it does not impact his salary. If you are right in your assumption, the order will come from the mayor, so I would suggest you redirect your animosity toward the person creating the action.
I never implied that cops are on a bounty system - I know there is pressure to go out and write tickets. Most people getting tickets are probably guilty I question this usage of resources in lieu of those that reduce felony and property theft crimes.
 
I didn't get pulled over. I am just seeing it. HSV City and Madison City have overstaffed and are trying to justify it. They put five cars on 72 E at rush hour with another in the woods shooting radar. They know that eveyone on the road then is working and can PAY. I don't blame the cops for this but lay the blame at the local politicos. As for the rank and file, I just wish they would lighten up the tough guy stuff because as I said before, it doesn't intimidate the gang bangers anyway. I am done with this subject.
I chuckle at the amount and show of force I see every time I am in town. I usually don't drive more than a couple of miles from Providence to the office park behind Walmart or the new Hampton by where they are building the Gander Mt to Bridge St.
 
I chuckle at the amount and show of force I see every time I am in town. I usually don't drive more than a couple of miles from Providence to the office park behind Walmart or the new Hampton by where they are building the Gander Mt to Bridge St.
Let's hoist one when you get back to town Dog.
 
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