Simple example of the difference between Texas and New York

[WVPATX]

The Governor of Texas, Greg Abbott, just signed a bill that forbids any community from taking away private property rights by banning fracking. Fracking has been deemed safe, even by the U.S. government, who is generally opposed to fossil fuel development.

New York, on the other hand, has banned fracking throughout the state hurting the economy, job creation and private property owners in pretty impoverished parts of New York.

One state is growing dramatically with a vibrant economy and huge job creation. The other is losing population and with a dismal economy outside of NYC.

 

[Op2]

The Governor of Texas, Greg Abbott, just signed a bill that forbids any community from taking away private property rights by banning fracking. Fracking has been deemed safe, even by the U.S. government, who is generally opposed to fossil fuel development.

New York, on the other hand, has banned fracking throughout the state hurting the economy, job creation and private property owners in pretty impoverished parts of New York.

One state is growing dramatically with a vibrant economy and huge job creation. The other is losing population and with a dismal economy outside of NYC.

You must really be starved for stuff to post. Yeah, each state gets to decide for itself. That's not exactly news, is it?

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

You must really be starved for stuff to post. Yeah, each state gets to decide for itself. That's not exactly news, is it?

I believe the point of the post was not to point out each state has the individual right to decide it's future but rather to show what smart leadership results in vs emotionally driven leadership without regard to fiscal needs.

 

[WVPATX]

I believe the point of the post was not to point out each state has the individual right to decide it's future but rather to show what smart leadership results in vs emotionally driven leadership without regard to fiscal needs.

How he could misinterpret the purpose of my post

You must really be starved for stuff to post. Yeah, each state gets to decide for itself. That's not exactly news, is it?

I am simply pointing out that one state is stupid and the other very smart and it shows when comparing growth, economic vitality, livability, freedom and the like.

 

[Op2]

How he could misinterpret the purpose of my post


I am simply pointing out that one state is stupid and the other very smart and it shows when comparing growth, economic vitality, livability, freedom and the like.

If that was true overall then Texas would be the greatest place to live and NY would be the worst But realistically different places have different policies yet within each of them there are some good and bad places to live.

 

[WVPATX]

If that was true overall then Texas would be the greatest place to live and NY would be the worst But realistically different places have different policies yet within each of them there are some good and bad places to live.

At the macro level, Texas is outperforming New York in almost every way. Business creation, job creation, wealth creation, employment, taxes, freedom, infrastructure, etc. I am not debating that New York doesn't have nice places, I am simply stating the obvious. Texas is blowing and going and New York is at best stagnant.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

If that was true overall then Texas would be the greatest place to live and NY would be the worst But realistically different places have different policies yet within each of them there are some good and bad places to live.

I would argue most people in Texas are in a generally good mood and proudly proclaim "Everything is bigger and better in Texas" and people in NY are notorious for being some rude/angry fvckers.

 

[WVPATX]

I would argue most people in Texas are in a generally good mood and proudly proclaim "Everything is bigger and better in Texas" and people in NY are notorious for being some rude/angry fvckers.

I love NYC and go there at least a couple times a year, but friendly is not a word I would use to describe many New Yorkers.

 

[Op2]

At the macro level, Texas is outperforming New York in almost every way. Business creation, job creation, wealth creation, employment, taxes, freedom, infrastructure, etc. I am not debating that New York doesn't have nice places, I am simply stating the obvious. Texas is blowing and going and New York is at best stagnant.

Texas and NY didn't become the way they've been overnight and instead have been like they are for a long time. If Texas' way was so monolithically superior to NY's way then Texas would be paradise and NY would be a dump.

 

[WVPATX]

Texas and NY didn't become the way they've been overnight and instead have been like they are for a long time. If Texas' way was so monolithically superior to NY's way then Texas would be paradise and NY would be a dump.

You're intentionally misrepresenting this issue. There is no perfect state, all have good spots and bad. But it is easy to measure economic vitality, economic growth, population growth, wealth creation, business growth, taxes, freedoms and the like. And at the macro level, Texas is outperforming New York in these most important categories. Cuomo's decision to ban fracking hurts New York's economy in the locations that have been most hurt by the very poor business climate in New York.

 

[mneilmont]

You must really be starved for stuff to post. Yeah, each state gets to decide for itself. That's not exactly news, is it?

Wow, a non professing Liberal who believes in States Rights.

 

[WVPATX]

Wow, a non professing Liberal who believes in States Rights.

Don't be so sure. I would be willing to bet he would support "Obama's decision" to ban fracking throughout the country.

 

[mneilmont]

Don't be so sure. I would be willing to bet he would support "Obama's decision" to ban fracking throughout the country.

No argument.

 

[Op2]

You're intentionally misrepresenting this issue. There is no perfect state, all have good spots and bad. But it is easy to measure economic vitality, economic growth, population growth, wealth creation, business growth, taxes, freedoms and the like. And at the macro level, Texas is outperforming New York in these most important categories. Cuomo's decision to ban fracking hurts New York's economy in the locations that have been most hurt by the very poor business climate in New York.

I'm not intentionally misrepresenting the issue, you're misrepresenting the issue, intentional or otherwise.

What Texas and NY are doing right now is a snapshot in time. But both Texas and NY have political philosophies that stay roughly the same over time. If one philosophy was so much superior to the other then the one with the superior political philosophy would always be doing better and the other would always be doing worse.

So Texas would have better economic vitality and growth and population growth and wealth creation, etc today and always than NY. And over time that would make Texas better and better and better and NY worse and worse and worse. And by now Texas would be absolutely fantastic while NY would absolutely suck. And yet that's not how things are.

 

[WVPATX]

I'm not intentionally misrepresenting the issue, you're misrepresenting the issue, intentional or otherwise.

What Texas and NY are doing right now is a snapshot in time. But both Texas and NY have political philosophies that stay roughly the same over time. If one philosophy was so much superior to the other then the one with the superior political philosophy would always be doing better and the other would always be doing worse.

So Texas would have better economic vitality and growth and population growth and wealth creation, etc today and always than NY. And over time that would make Texas better and better and better and NY worse and worse and worse. And by now Texas would be absolutely fantastic while NY would absolutely suck. And yet that's not how things are.

Not true. Texas has had Dem governors and Dem legislatures. New York has had Republican governors and Republican legislatures. They all have different philosophies. New York went Dem after Pataki and Texas went Republican after Richards. Elections have consequences. Texas has been prospering and New York has been failing.

 

[Op2]

Not true. Texas has had Dem governors and Dem legislatures. New York has had Republican governors and Republican legislatures. They all have different philosophies. New York went Dem after Pataki and Texas went Republican after Richards. Elections have consequences. Texas has been prospering and New York has been failing.

Give me a break. Tell you what, if you think it's so cut and dried re. parties ruling and success/failure then write up a paper and submit it to a political journal and then sit back and reap your rewards of fame and money for figuring it all out.

 

[WVPATX]

Give me a break. Tell you what, if you think it's so cut and dried re. parties ruling and success/failure then write up a paper and submit it to a political journal and then sit back and reap your rewards of fame and money for figuring it all out.

As in a Few Good Men, "You can't handle the truth."

 

[Op2]

As in a Few Good Men, "You can't handle the truth."

I can handle the truth, I just can't handle you.

 

[moe]

Don't be so sure. I would be willing to bet he would support "Obama's decision" to ban fracking throughout the country.

When did BO make that "decision"?

 

[WVPATX]

When did BO make that "decision"?

It was a hypothetical

 

[PriddyBoy]

The Devonian Shale is absent in New York. There is precious little petroleum in the state, hence the giant transmission lines (pipelines) going from the gas fields of WV to NY. The shale has been fraced since the 40s in states where it is present. Huge tax breaks are (If they still are) given for developing Devonian 'tight sands' and shale to promote energy production. The only thing new about shale fracing is the cost and reliability of directional drilling finally met the risk vs reward criteria.

 

[moe]

The Devonian Shale is absent in New York. There is precious little petroleum in the state, hence the giant transmission lines (pipelines) going from the gas fields of WV to NY. The shale has been fraced since the 40s in states where it is present. Huge tax breaks are (If they still are) given for developing Devonian 'tight sands' and shale to promote energy production. The only thing new about shale fracing is the cost and reliability of directional drilling finally met the risk vs reward criteria.

I'm not sure how "wet" (oil producing) the Marcellus is in New York but they certainly have natural gas resources in the area shown. I did some work in natural gas producing areas of NY a couple of decades ago.

 

[mneilmont]

The Devonian Shale is absent in New York. There is precious little petroleum in the state, hence the giant transmission lines (pipelines) going from the gas fields of WV to NY. The shale has been fraced since the 40s in states where it is present. Huge tax breaks are (If they still are) given for developing Devonian 'tight sands' and shale to promote energy production. The only thing new about shale fracing is the cost and reliability of directional drilling finally met the risk vs reward criteria.

Looks like a bunch of energy available on our own soil. Sounds like we could extract that as a growth industry. Our leaders prefer to trade our cash for ME energy. National Debt is only$18+ trillion and growing. How/why did we select these people to lead us?

 

[WVPATX]

I'm not sure how "wet" (oil producing) the Marcellus is in New York but they certainly have natural gas resources in the area shown. I did some work in natural gas producing areas of NY a couple of decades ago.

Yes, New York has reasonably large reserves of natural gas . The frackibg ban is hurting that part of New York which could really use the help

 

[Keyser76]

So Texas assumes the mantle of the federal Government in imposing it's will on the citizens of Texas municipalities? Lol, Roll over them tea party Texans who don't want a well drilled in their backyard! I'm sure the irony is lost on here. Oklahoma about to f*ck their residents too, big oil gots big pockets to lobby those GOP State Governments.

 

[moe]

Sounds like we could extract that as a growth industry. Are you saying that here in America we could take advantage of our oil and gas reserves by utilizing modern directional drilling/fracking technology? Wake up and go back to sleep as they say.

 

[PriddyBoy]

The problem with shale production in the part of New York that the Appalachian Basin occurs is that it is violently folded like WV's eastern panhandle. This folding limits a prolific occurrence of gas as occurs in the Plateau region of the basin. Rule of thumb: if you can see the formation from your car, it's probably not going to yield much gas. Most of the hydrocarbons have made their way to the atmosphere long ago. The government might give you tax credits trying (by footage drilled) but you'll be lucky to find enough 'trapped' for commercial production. Wells are on the clock when completed and are required to be produced or plugged within a State's prescribed time. That's a shame because some really good wells have been expensively drilled and completed only to be plugged for lack of a pipeline. But hey, tax credits are as good as money. Hell, farmers are issued checks not to grow certain crops they had no intention of growing anyway. Crazy world.

edit: sorry, this was meant as a reply to moe. just when I was starting to think I had the new forums figured out.

 

[WVPATX]

So Texas assumes the mantle of the federal Government in imposing it's will on the citizens of Texas municipalities? Lol, Roll over them tea party Texans who don't want a well drilled in their backyard! I'm sure the irony is lost on here. Oklahoma about to f*ck their residents too, big oil gots big pockets to lobby those GOP State Governments.

You are actually making a legitimate argument. I too struggled with whether it is okay for the state of Texas to dictate to the communities of Texas . However when the communities of Texas impose their will on individual private property owners that greatly impacts the value of the hydrocarbons they own, I come down on the side of the state and the private property owners.

 

[Keyser76]

You are actually making a legitimate argument. I too struggled with whether it is okay for the state of Texas to dictate to the communities of Texas . However when the communities of Texas impose their will on individual private property owners that greatly impacts the value of the hydrocarbons they own, I come down on the side of the state and the private property owners.

 

[TarHeelEer]

If that was true overall then Texas would be the greatest place to live and NY would be the worst But realistically different places have different policies yet within each of them there are some good and bad places to live.

This post says absolutely nothing. Pretty much par for the course.