Oklahoma president says Big 12 should look toward expanding...
- Thread starter Vernon
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I don't think there's any argument about that.... It's a matter of "who", "how" and "at what cost" (dilution issue).
It would appear more and more important conference people are starting to take sides on this topic. That's not a bad thing if they're all willing to work together and focus on what is going to be benefit the conference and not only individual schools.
Yeah, that would be great. Let's drop Texas and OU from schedule so we can play BYU (furthest away) and UCONN (truly and 1-AA) program. This is what would happen. Big 12 does not need to expand.
Exactamundo GMC2
Stay at 10, play the best schedule & get the best TV $$$$$$$ EVER.
Nobody not in a P5 already will make this conference better. Besides the egos of Notre Dame and on Tobacco Road in the ACC ensure an implosion.
Stay at 10, play the best schedule & get the best TV $$$$$$$ EVER.
Nobody not in a P5 already will make this conference better. Besides the egos of Notre Dame and on Tobacco Road in the ACC ensure an implosion.
Def not uconn or Cincinnati. I see it being BYU, Boise state. I can't see the need for another team from Texas the market is pretty well covered there. If not those 2 I see no other real good candidate. Unless we raid the ACC but who would want to leave and pay the exit fee
Expand with which teams?
The two new teams need to add $60 million to $100 million to the TV money for the current members to BREAK even (dividing by 12 compared to dividing by 10). So it's not so easy.
Baylor and TCU not making the national playoffs should not panic the Big 12 into adding two teams that cost the current members money because the 12-way cut is less than the 10-way cut.
As I see it, BYU and Notre Dame (all-in, not pussyfooting the way it does with the ACC and before that the Big East) are the only possibilities.
Otherwise, the current members would just be taking money out of their own pockets to finance an expansion to 12 teams, even with a title game. TV isn't going to pay extra money for a Cincy or UConn. Hell, if they're going to be that stupid, they might as well add Marshall and Fairmont State. Sorry, Fairmont State.
:sunglasses:
The two new teams need to add $60 million to $100 million to the TV money for the current members to BREAK even (dividing by 12 compared to dividing by 10). So it's not so easy.
Baylor and TCU not making the national playoffs should not panic the Big 12 into adding two teams that cost the current members money because the 12-way cut is less than the 10-way cut.
As I see it, BYU and Notre Dame (all-in, not pussyfooting the way it does with the ACC and before that the Big East) are the only possibilities.
Otherwise, the current members would just be taking money out of their own pockets to finance an expansion to 12 teams, even with a title game. TV isn't going to pay extra money for a Cincy or UConn. Hell, if they're going to be that stupid, they might as well add Marshall and Fairmont State. Sorry, Fairmont State.
:sunglasses:
FSU and Clemson both have relatively new Presidents so it wouldn't surprise me that they may be having discussions. There hasn't been an announcement on the ACC payout for this year and both of these Universities are right in the middle of SEC country. If there is a huge difference in conference payouts between FSU and say Florida & Clemson and South Carolina then these two school could be exploring better options.
FSU and Clemson are not leaving the ACC to join the Texas conference.
Its Cincy, BYU, Boise, and UConn. 2 of those are going to be selected to get a CCG. If OU leaves the conference, you can guarantee Texas will leave shortly after to another league and we end up adding two of these schools anyway. The only question is if Texas wants it or not. If Texas and OU are in agreement, it will happen.
Its Cincy, BYU, Boise, and UConn. 2 of those are going to be selected to get a CCG. If OU leaves the conference, you can guarantee Texas will leave shortly after to another league and we end up adding two of these schools anyway. The only question is if Texas wants it or not. If Texas and OU are in agreement, it will happen.
All that....and yet the Big10 figured out how to make Rutgers a profitable addition. Yes, Rutgers. It's not only about thinking out of the box but also adding a fourth dimension.
Plus, a little less profit for the stability of the conference is worth the price imo. ....and save the GOR argument because the first high profile team to test it in court will blow it to smithereens. Don't even think of debating me on that point...I watch a lot of Judge Judy.
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Really...you STILL can't figure out how to login ??
It's not that simple. The Big Ten made Rutgers profitable due to the BTN. The Big 12 doesn't have a network because of the LHN. They don't have that same option.
The other problem is the Big 12's contract. Boren explained this himself. The Big 12 can't get extra money for new teams. They only get enough to keep the payout the same as before. For example, the Big 12 TV contract pays out about $20 million a year (average). That's about what Florida St already gets from the ACC. There would be no reason for Florida St to leave, because they wouldn't get any more money. That's the problem. The Big 12 can't offer more money, so there is no incentive for P5 teams to come. The only way it makes financial sense is for mid-major teams who don't make as much. The problem there is that those teams don't help with this Big 12's issues.
And yes, the GOR does matter. It's not as easy to overturn as you think. Nowhere near as easy. Plus, it would be in court for years, and the Big 12 couldn't broadcast the team's games until the case is finished.
TopD...I respect your reply.
I disagree about a couple of points....but I was hoping someone would explain them in a respectable manner. You did that...
I disagree about a couple of points....but I was hoping someone would explain them in a respectable manner. You did that...
There are rumors of it being Cincy and Memphis. For some the is no situation in which they would be happy with those choices, so there is no point debating it. Maybe I am just getting older and don't care as much as I did 10 years ago when this realignment crap started, but I could live with Cincy and Memphis if for no other reason than they are reasonably close to WVU and both have potential to do better than their current position. Plus it is probably 2 wins for WVU each year.
The thought process behind it is several layers.
One is to move into B10 and SEC territory.
Another is that they are the closest geographically convenient schools in top 50 markets available... meaning schools in Texas don't want to have crazy unnatural travel requirements. It adds 2 new states to the footprint, which is something the B12 needs to do. It is currently only in 5 states, and two of those are Iowa and WV.
Another aspect or factor has to do with the supposed fact that the B12 has partnered with the ACC on freeing up how a conference determines who participates in a conference title game. They apparently want to do away with divisions and have the freedom to select the 2 highest ranked teams in the conference to try and position them for a playoff berth.
Unlike in the Big East where there was no power school to anchor the conference, the B12 has two in Texas and Oklahoma, so the need for a marquee addition is not as imperative. And adding two non threatening schools like Cincy and Memphis are wins in the record books for the stronger programs.
And they do add basketball value, which it know is not as important, but it does help.
The thought process behind it is several layers.
One is to move into B10 and SEC territory.
Another is that they are the closest geographically convenient schools in top 50 markets available... meaning schools in Texas don't want to have crazy unnatural travel requirements. It adds 2 new states to the footprint, which is something the B12 needs to do. It is currently only in 5 states, and two of those are Iowa and WV.
Another aspect or factor has to do with the supposed fact that the B12 has partnered with the ACC on freeing up how a conference determines who participates in a conference title game. They apparently want to do away with divisions and have the freedom to select the 2 highest ranked teams in the conference to try and position them for a playoff berth.
Unlike in the Big East where there was no power school to anchor the conference, the B12 has two in Texas and Oklahoma, so the need for a marquee addition is not as imperative. And adding two non threatening schools like Cincy and Memphis are wins in the record books for the stronger programs.
And they do add basketball value, which it know is not as important, but it does help.
I've read people saying Boren is one of the only people in favor of expanding but he's an important person and we shouldn't lose sight of that. Didn't Lyons make comments that would appear to at least be open to the idea?
I get expansion but why expand with Memphis and cinci? They bring nothing to the table. I would rather add BYU and cherry pick one team from the acc. Is arkansas completely happy in the sec? Make them an offer they can't refuse, give them full payouts from the start, not like wvu and Tcu. if Memphis and cinci are the very best options, just sit tight at 10.
No one is leaving the SEC, if the current trend holds college football as we know it will simply be the SEC, bailing on the SEC is risking your entire atheltic program in the long term.
WVU more than anyone should be in favor of eastern expansion. It helps get rid of our perception as "that random school 1000 miles away" and give us some rivalries. UC would be a welcome addition IMO. Solid football and hoops.
If Texas and Oklahoma leave, then WVU is in another Big East nobody football conference, the equivalent of C-USA. I hope eventually there are only FOUR Power conferences, with 16 teams in each, and they just put the eight division winners into the national playoff. Draw names out of the hat if they want to see who plays who in the 8-team playoff, or go by a judgment only rankings (which all of them all, even the ones with computers).
Boren said that the television contracts would go up to keep the amount per school the same. Plus the conference championship game would add value. Money might go do a little but not significantly. Plus there would be more bowl teams from the conference.
No one is leaving the SEC, the Big10 or the ACC. They are quite stable as is the P12. The only conference that is unsettled is the B12.
The BIG 12 isn't on its deathbed like Trotter suggests. He is a fool. The BIG 12 has a grant of rights through 2025.
They are making enough money that with their tier 3 deals everyone will remain close to the Big Ten (or better) through 2025. Its hard to say where they'll be in comparison to the SEC because of the SEC network--but that network is already distributed to just about everywhere its going to be , so there isn't going to be a ton of money coming from that. WVU with its tier 3 was very close to their every tier payout with just an 85% share this past year.
Boren was talking about the future of the BIG 12 beyond the current contracts because the BIG 12 is going to need to get more money after the current one to keep pace.
Unfortunately the ACC, Big Ten and Pac 12 all have grants of rights as well--no one with a grant of rights is going to do anything to try to get out of that because their own conferences rights then open up.
They are making enough money that with their tier 3 deals everyone will remain close to the Big Ten (or better) through 2025. Its hard to say where they'll be in comparison to the SEC because of the SEC network--but that network is already distributed to just about everywhere its going to be , so there isn't going to be a ton of money coming from that. WVU with its tier 3 was very close to their every tier payout with just an 85% share this past year.
Boren was talking about the future of the BIG 12 beyond the current contracts because the BIG 12 is going to need to get more money after the current one to keep pace.
Unfortunately the ACC, Big Ten and Pac 12 all have grants of rights as well--no one with a grant of rights is going to do anything to try to get out of that because their own conferences rights then open up.
That would be WVU's luck to join a power conference and it's two most powerful members(OU, Texas) bolt.
Because they were broke, and got offered a sweetheart deal. The Big Ten pays their travel expenses.
Isn't it that the TV people will renegotiate but we don't know how much? I'm in favor of expansion but I also want to see real numbers and not speculation.
Bowlsby reconfirmed that pro rata increases are written into the contracts. That means new members would get the same tv money as existing members.
Here is a good write up on how the money situation could work:
Expansion might cost Big 12 schools a lot less money than you think
http://www.sbnation.com/college-foo...g-12-conference-expansion-realignment-revenue
And that's where Maryland has always wanted to be anyway so it make sense for them.
Draw a straight line between Morgantown and Norman, then pick 2 schools that are on that line. That makes as much sense as anything else.
I repeat: Unless the current members get more annual payout, it would be foolish of them to add 2 schools. Why PAY 2 schools to join the Big 12?
Let's get this realignment over with by dividing the country geographically into 8 sections, and have the winner of each section conference play in the national playoffs. No need to cannibalize another conference. No argument about a true national champ. No one gets left out.
Hell, let's go one step further. Set up each section like a tournament bracket. Round one first Saturday in September. Round two the winners play each other and the losers play each other. Keep that going for 12 weeks. Then on to the national playoffs. Man, no one could say that the national champ didn't earn the title. All Power-5-ish schools would have the same shot.
Half the teams would be out of the running after the opening game. Make me commissioner and I'll work out the details.
Silly? Sure. So are most of the ideas about this.
CUYAHOGA FALLS EERS if I can ever figure out how to sign back in under that hallowed name.
I repeat: Unless the current members get more annual payout, it would be foolish of them to add 2 schools. Why PAY 2 schools to join the Big 12?
Let's get this realignment over with by dividing the country geographically into 8 sections, and have the winner of each section conference play in the national playoffs. No need to cannibalize another conference. No argument about a true national champ. No one gets left out.
Hell, let's go one step further. Set up each section like a tournament bracket. Round one first Saturday in September. Round two the winners play each other and the losers play each other. Keep that going for 12 weeks. Then on to the national playoffs. Man, no one could say that the national champ didn't earn the title. All Power-5-ish schools would have the same shot.
Half the teams would be out of the running after the opening game. Make me commissioner and I'll work out the details.
Silly? Sure. So are most of the ideas about this.
CUYAHOGA FALLS EERS if I can ever figure out how to sign back in under that hallowed name.
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