Kessel to Penguins

[COOL MAN]

Just saw it here after the dinner hour.....Kessel, 15% of his current deal value, 2 throw-ins, and a #2 for Kapanen, Harrington, Spaling, a #1, and #3.

I myself think this is a decent deal for the Pens since they didn't have to move Pouliot or Maataa (who I'm sure were untouchable in this scenario). While perhaps the youngest player in the entire organization, I got the impression that Kapanen lost some of his juice this past season. But at his age, he still has to be considered a prospect.....though I think only his Dad considers him a can't miss player. Still, even with the #1 they gave up, I don't see as though they gave up a critical piece of the organization in return for one of the game's most legitimate snipers.

Nothing more needs said about Kessel that hasn't already been said, so I won't start here. Perhaps the two throw-ins give the Pens some bottom of the roster flexibility, and the #2 from the Leafs could be a relatively high one if moving Kessel commences the total burn down of the Leafs under Babcock. I assume GMJR was delighted to move Spaling's deal.

All things considered.....and even though the deal, on paper, belongs to the Penguins......I think the Leafs did about as well as they could do. When you have a monster contract like PK's which has to be moved, your alternatives are limited. Under the circumstances, Kapanen and the #1 are a decent return on paper, and Harrington will likely end up being a solid second-pairing defenseman.

OK toronto, gimme' the rundown of the locals.....

 

[torontoeers]

Just saw it here after the dinner hour.....Kessel, 15% of his current deal value, 2 throw-ins, and a #2 for Kapanen, Harrington, Spaling, a #1, and #3.

I myself think this is a decent deal for the Pens since they didn't have to move Pouliot or Maataa (who I'm sure were untouchable in this scenario). While perhaps the youngest player in the entire organization, I got the impression that Kapanen lost some of his juice this past season. But at his age, he still has to be considered a prospect.....though I think only his Dad considers him a can't miss player. Still, even with the #1 they gave up, I don't see as though they gave up a critical piece of the organization in return for one of the game's most legitimate snipers.

Nothing more needs said about Kessel that hasn't already been said, so I won't start here. Perhaps the two throw-ins give the Pens some bottom of the roster flexibility, and the #2 from the Leafs could be a relatively high one if moving Kessel commences the total burn down of the Leafs under Babcock. I assume GMJR was delighted to move Spaling's deal.

All things considered.....and even though the deal, on paper, belongs to the Penguins......I think the Leafs did about as well as they could do. When you have a monster contract like PK's which has to be moved, your alternatives are limited. Under the circumstances, Kapanen and the #1 are a decent return on paper, and Harrington will likely end up being a solid second-pairing defenseman.

OK toronto, gimme' the rundown of the locals.....

Well.....they view it as some sort of victory... I see their point to some extent (as in watching/hearing of Kessel since the day he came), he either can't or doesn't want to play a lick of D. Now he isnt being played to defend but it would be nice if he buys into at least a bit of responsibility...
This one is really a bit difficult for me to evaluate on a truly objective level....I HATE the Leafs, more than the Flyers, Craps, Rangers combined. And thus for his time here I hated Kessel. I think the possibility of him scoring 40-50 with Sid and Geno is huge...I'd say we on paper now have or should have the best O in the league.
It looks like Kunitz would be on the block now? Or should be imo...I still wonder about our D situation. ...especially after losing a workhorse like Martin...we need a big stud who can smash and manhandle back there....I'm honestly still processing this whole deal....although the first to them (20-30 overall?) And the 2nd coming back (low 30's) are almost a wash....and them paying some $ is nice.

We won this deal hands down....but I don't want to admit it if that makes sense...lol!....and neither do the Leafers here but for different reasons....

 

[COOL MAN]

It looks like Kunitz would be on the block now? Or should be imo...I still wonder about our D situation. ...especially after losing a workhorse like Martin...we need a big stud who can smash and manhandle back there

Oh, outside Scuderi, I doubt there's anyone on the roster who the Pens want to move as much as Kunitz. OTOH, there have been a number of reports much of last season hurt; so perhaps some are expecting some degree of comeback from him next season.

Still trying to figure out what GMJR is going to do with Sutter. From everything I've read, the rest of the League is doing anything but breaking down his door regarding Sutter. He's hardly worth the #1 many seem to believe he's worth, particularly with only a year left on his current deal. If he could wriggle a #2.....or perhaps a #4-5 defenseman......I suspect the Pens would jump. But I don't know if this ends up happening.

I assume Erixon will get a chance to win a job on the 3rd pairing. Losing Harrington does hurt their depth, but assuming their top 5 is Letang, Maatta, Pouliot, Cole, and Lovejoy.....they have Erixon, Dumoulin, and Scuderi around for depth. That may not be among the best defense corps in the League, but it honestly doesn't look all that bad to me......especially if Pouliot begins to really figure things out. Wonder if they might still make some sort of effort to re-sign Ehrhoff.

I also hope Biggs.....who apparently hasn't shown anything at all.....benefits from the change in scenery. But while Kessel obviously makes the top of the lineup much better, they lost two starters (Comeau and Downie) today, and have more questions about Kunitz and (especially) Dupuis than answers. They still need numbers at Wing. Wonder if Bennett will decide to show up next season.

What I don't know is if PK plays with Sid or Geno; early money seems to be he'll be with Sid, but I'm not altogether sure about that. Probably the biggest thing that disappointed me today is they couldn't (or didn't try to) keep Comeau.

 

[Euell]

Oh, outside Scuderi, I doubt there's anyone on the roster who the Pens want to move as much as Kunitz. OTOH, there have been a number of reports much of last season hurt; so perhaps some are expecting some degree of comeback from him next season.

Still trying to figure out what GMJR is going to do with Sutter. From everything I've read, the rest of the League is doing anything but breaking down his door regarding Sutter. He's hardly worth the #1 many seem to believe he's worth, particularly with only a year left on his current deal. If he could wriggle a #2.....or perhaps a #4-5 defenseman......I suspect the Pens would jump. But I don't know if this ends up happening.

I assume Erixon will get a chance to win a job on the 3rd pairing. Losing Harrington does hurt their depth, but assuming their top 5 is Letang, Maatta, Pouliot, Cole, and Lovejoy.....they have Erixon, Dumoulin, and Scuderi around for depth. That may not be among the best defense corps in the League, but it honestly doesn't look all that bad to me......especially if Pouliot begins to really figure things out. Wonder if they might still make some sort of effort to re-sign Ehrhoff.

I also hope Biggs.....who apparently hasn't shown anything at all.....benefits from the change in scenery. But while Kessel obviously makes the top of the lineup much better, they lost two starters (Comeau and Downie) today, and have more questions about Kunitz and (especially) Dupuis than answers. They still need numbers at Wing. Wonder if Bennett will decide to show up next season.

What I don't know is if PK plays with Sid or Geno; early money seems to be he'll be with Sid, but I'm not altogether sure about that. Probably the biggest thing that disappointed me today is they couldn't (or didn't try to) keep Comeau.

As I have stated before, you guys know way more about hockey than I do, but the writer at CBS Sports was touting this as a great deal for the Pens. I hope he is right. Only about three months until they drop the puck! Let's go Pens!

 

[bEER_Nation13]

Homerun by Jim Rutherford. Hell, it's a walk-off grandslam. He didn't give up Pouliot or Maatta. Toronto retains salary, Penguins only have to pay him $6.8 million per year. You should check some salaries around the league, his cap hit for the Penguins is cheaper than quite a few other players and he's an elite goal scorer. And I much rather have him at 6.8 than someone like Saad for 5.5-6 million. And the Penguins got to dump Spaling's contract. But it would have been nicer if it was Scuderi's since he's a harder player to trade. I think Scuderi didn't waive his NTC which only reminds me how terrible Shero was. Why in the bloody Hell would you give Scuderi 4 years, cap hit of like $3.5 million AAV, along with a limited NTC? That's absurd to give him all 3 of those.

Need to dump his contract badly tho, Pens should just tell him. Hey, if you're going to stay on our team, you're most likely going to be the 7th defenseman and be a healthy scratch for majority of the games. This might force his hand and let him waive his NTC.

I wouldn't mind moving Kunitz either, even if the centerpiece of the deal was a draft pick. It would open up more cap, allow the Pens to make a move at Trade Deadline or perhaps sign a solid d-man now like Oduya who I would love to sign but currently not able to due to contracts such as Kunitz, Scuderi, etc.

 

[torontoeers]

With COOLMAN on the point that no competitive Comeau offer was made is disappointing.
Yes bEER the fact we didn't have to include our youthful D men is a huge plus...Ehrhoff is apparently not looking for a long term deal. Which screams to me sign the man. His #'s were not great last year but the injuries took a big toll....just bad luck imo...if we can throw a guy of his ilk out there on our second pairing (hopefully this year on a regular basis), to help out the youth it is a huge plus. We've got plenty of promise on the back end but with Martin's loss need at least one more solid vet returning imo. I also REALLY like Ehrhoff's left shot...make him a solid two year offer GMJR....he wants to win and we need to make a run in the next 2 years....
And Euell...don't sell yourself short...you watch the games...your opinion is valued...3 months indeed...drop the puck!

 

[Euell]

With COOLMAN on the point that no competitive Comeau offer was made is disappointing.
Yes bEER the fact we didn't have to include our youthful D men is a huge plus...Ehrhoff is apparently not looking for a long term deal. Which screams to me sign the man. His #'s were not great last year but the injuries took a big toll....just bad luck imo...if we can throw a guy of his ilk out there on our second pairing (hopefully this year on a regular basis), to help out the youth it is a huge plus. We've got plenty of promise on the back end but with Martin's loss need at least one more solid vet returning imo. I also REALLY like Ehrhoff's left shot...make him a solid two year offer GMJR....he wants to win and we need to make a run in the next 2 years....
And Euell...don't sell yourself short...you watch the games...your opinion is valued...3 months indeed...drop the puck!

Yeah Toronto, I watch a lot of hockey. I watch at least part of about every Penguin game and watched most of the Stanley Cup playoff games, especially the Eastern Conference. However, at pushing 60 yrs of age I cannot remember things like I used to. However, the one thing I am most convinced of with the Pens is they need to SHOOT THE PUCK! They drive me crazy with their incessant over-passing. I saw a lot of goals scored on rebound shots in the playoffs which further cemented this theory in my mind. College football and NHL getting closer with every passing day. I have your section, row, and seat #'s written down and will see you in September!

 

[torontoeers]

Yeah Toronto, I watch a lot of hockey. I watch at least part of about every Penguin game and watched most of the Stanley Cup playoff games, especially the Eastern Conference. However, at pushing 60 yrs of age I cannot remember things like I used to. However, the one thing I am most convinced of with the Pens is they need to SHOOT THE PUCK! They drive me crazy with their incessant over-passing. I saw a lot of goals scored on rebound shots in the playoffs which further cemented this theory in my mind. College football and NHL getting closer with every passing day. I have your section, row, and seat #'s written down and will see you in September!

Agree 100%....BUT until we get that big bruiser in front of the opposition net , and with Johnston's freewheeling style they will continue to try and possess the puck rather than shoot and look for the rebound. Kessel is a definitive sniper which will help this game imo BUT the kinda guy I'd be looking for is in the mold of Simmonds in Philly. ...I would wager a sizeable chunk of change that 80-90% of his goals are potted in the hard fought area in front of the net in between the hash marks...look forward to meeting up this Sept at season start Euell...a new season brings new promise and this D should be fantastic!

 

[COOL MAN]

Agree 100%....BUT until we get that big bruiser in front of the opposition net , and with Johnston's freewheeling style they will continue to try and possess the puck rather than shoot and look for the rebound. Kessel is a definitive sniper which will help this game imo BUT the kinda guy I'd be looking for is in the mold of Simmonds in Philly. ...I would wager a sizeable chunk of change that 80-90% of his goals are potted in the hard fought area in front of the net in between the hash marks...look forward to meeting up this Sept at season start Euell...a new season brings new promise and this D should be fantastic!

Pens haven't had a Simmonds type......who I myself think would look delightful on Sid's wing (while getting him away from Philly) .....since Kevin Stevens hung it up. Worse, those kinds of talented horses have become more and more important as the League gets physically bigger, while this team continues largely to ignore that profile in the Draft (and in free agency) while focusing on smaller skater/playmaker-types.

Really, the last true big forward prospect the team had in the System was OHL (eventual) stiff Eric Tangredi, who many......including yours truly.....thought would end up being the key ingredient in the Ryan Whitney for Chris Kunitz deal. But the way the team has continued to avoid these these kinds of players since ET was traded.....and the fact GMJR has picked up, from that standpoint, right where Ray Shero left off.....makes me theorize someone (like, say, Mario) has decided this kind of player simply isn't in keeping with the kind of team he wants. In fact, it's almost like the failed Tangredi experiment poisoned the entire concept.....at both forward AND defense....with the franchise.

Meanwhile, the Pens keep getting physically steamrolled by MUCH bigger Eastern teams like the Bruins, Craps, Cryers, and Rangers (not to mention Anaheim, Los Angeles, San Jose, St. Louis, and Winnipeg from the West). Ironically, I'm pretty sure Tangredi just became a free agent; and would therefore be available to add as a regular shifter in WB/S (and also as a short-term big up-front call-up to the Pens)

 

[COOL MAN]

Yeah Toronto, I watch a lot of hockey. I watch at least part of about every Penguin game and watched most of the Stanley Cup playoff games, especially the Eastern Conference. However, at pushing 60 yrs of age I cannot remember things like I used to. However, the one thing I am most convinced of with the Pens is they need to SHOOT THE PUCK! They drive me crazy with their incessant over-passing. I saw a lot of goals scored on rebound shots in the playoffs which further cemented this theory in my mind. College football and NHL getting closer with every passing day. I have your section, row, and seat #'s written down and will see you in September!

As we all know, this has been a monstrous problem for this team for a number of years. And regrettably, nobody on the team consistently wants to make the extra pass......especially that lateral one across the clogged-up center of the ice on the PP.....more than Sid. But as long as he (and Geno) keep looking to make that pass rather than throw something on goal, this problem won't be going away.

OTOH, I doubt Kessel brings that pass-first/shoot-second mentality with him; which no sniper on the wing should have. I'd like to see the Pens at least put together some PP looks which have Kessel looking for open ice.....a la Ovechkin. That alone should make the Pens offense more dangerous with the man advantage.

 

[COOL MAN]

Tangradi signed a 1 year FA deal with Detroit; which clearly proves they're no closer to the Cup than the Penguins (and probably some distance further away than their fanbase would be comfortable admitting) even after the good fortune......as some Wing supporters (sounding a WHOLE like Bruins fans) have recently claimed..... that Babcock has mercifully taken his tired old act to Toronto.

 

[bEER_Nation13]

rumor has it that Penguins are pursuing Cody Franson, would love to have him. No idea how he hasn't already signed, one of the better d-men out there and would solidify our blueline situation. I like our guys now but we are 1 injury away from Lovejoy or Scuderi being Top 4. Cody Franson would solidify our blueline depth and I would be feeling very good heading into the season. But to sign Cody Franson, I think the Pens would have to clear some cap space. Scuderi would be prime candidate but I just learned that he has a NMC instead of NTC which is a No Movement Clause. He can reject all trades. Why did Shero give him that? Gave him 4 years, ridiculous 3.5 million per year and then a NMC? Wow, Shero is trash. Perhaps, they will trade Sutter or Kunitz.

 

[torontoeers]

rumor has it that Penguins are pursuing Cody Franson, would love to have him. No idea how he hasn't already signed, one of the better d-men out there and would solidify our blueline situation. I like our guys now but we are 1 injury away from Lovejoy or Scuderi being Top 4. Cody Franson would solidify our blueline depth and I would be feeling very good heading into the season. But to sign Cody Franson, I think the Pens would have to clear some cap space. Scuderi would be prime candidate but I just learned that he has a NMC instead of NTC which is a No Movement Clause. He can reject all trades. Why did Shero give him that? Gave him 4 years, ridiculous 3.5 million per year and then a NMC? Wow, Shero is trash. Perhaps, they will trade Sutter or Kunitz.

Franson was the Leafs best defender for a couple years. ...although the majority here would not admit it. Sign him up if we can get him at reasonable term...and try our damndest to jettison a #6 paid like a #3-4...Franson's shot when he has the license to use it is formidable imo...and a solid skater...

 

[COOL MAN]

Already been discussed that pretty much anyone-who's-decent (let alone Franson) to the Pens is DOA without them jettisoning possibly two from the garbage list of Kunitz, Scuderi, and Sutter. Besides, with that kind of money in hand to spend, I'd have preferred they took a FA run while Justin Williams or maybe Joel Ward were still available.

Not that anyone cares what I think, I have a feeling GMJR will now be monstrously fortunate to jettison even one of them. It also doesn't help he seems to be on record publicly as wanting to open next season with Sutter.....easily the most marketable (relatively speaking, or course) of the three.....as his #3 center. BTW, I still think the best Pens can currently hope for in return for Sutter is something like a #3 pick. As discussed before.....if GMJR could squeeze a #2 from someone.....I myself think he should jump at it before the echo died out.

I heard a funny interview on NHL Network Radio yesterday between a couple guys, I think, from Toronto......one might have been an Analytics guy, and the other possibly a garden-variety NHL blogger. Anyway, one.....I think it was the Analytics guy.....insisted the best move for the Penguins would be to stick Kessel on the third line with Sutter; hence, spreading around the talent and giving the Pens a legitimate third line. The other guy basically told him to hang up the phone and go away.

Even though I strongly disagreed, I at least understood the essential point the Analytics guy was trying to make. But if Johnston actually decided to pair Kessel with Sutter, I suspect Sid and Geno would go on strike (if not leave town altogether).

Meanwhile, I'm still wondering if Ehrhoff has gotten an even-remotely (again, relatively speaking) legitimate offer yet. I thought I read recently his home in Pittsburgh was on the market; if true, it certainly sounds as though that ship....which I wouldn't be against at the right price.....has sailed for the Pens. Of course, that's presumably also the reason he's still waiting; nobody is willing to offer him more than a 1 year deal (and for much more than League minimum).

Makes me wonder if he may eventually have to agree to a tryout in order to earn a contract from somebody for next year.

 

[COOL MAN]

BTW toronto, feeling any better today about Kessel on the Pens than 2 weeks ago ??

 

[torontoeers]

BTW toronto, feeling any better today about Kessel on the Pens than 2 weeks ago ??

I am feeling a bit better about the deal after getting over the initial laughing and pointing in my direction by Leaf faithful (hard to imagine for this guy that they have it within them to laugh at ANY other team in the league...but whatever, the rest of us always seem to get the last laugh over them for decades now). I feel we got good value for the picks and basically spare parts we gave up to aquire him, not to mention the reduction in salary...every little bit helps today with many teams tight to the cap!
Is he the player we really need? I would say he's a player anybody would want at the right price (which imo is where we've got him long term). His knock has always been that he lacks the desire to be even better, and competitors can knock him off his game by getting under his skin. Hopefully the leadership on this club can light a fire under him to get him to 40-50 goals a season over the next few years....however that sure as heck is
NOT happening with Kessel on the third line?!? As you mention I understand the point mr. Analytics is making but something tells me many of these guys often read WAY TO MUCH into the numbers game over common sense!

This situation with Ehrhoff? I'm starting to wonder if there is an underlying or nagging health issue perhaps related to late last year that is keeping the Pens and everyone else for that matter away or cautious? I would still try and throw a one or 2 year deal his way for as you say reasonable $....A guy in his mold or even Franson is going to be important in grooming / leading the youth on D along with Letang...

As for the thing you and I have been harping on for a while...a BIGGER skilled player who uses his size? Still waiting aren't we...I would have taken a flyer on big Lucic in now knowing the price LA paid...now that Kessel is here I'd certainly say minimum 1 and likely 2 higher priced players need to hit the road to even have a shot at acquiring a big bruiser...
I mentioned him before he was drafted last year and now Anaheim of all teams own him but this fella in the link would be perfect if he shakes out ( which i'm sure he has a good shot at with the Ducks)!....spoken as a Pete's fan of course lol...
Drop me a line when you're back in Southern Ontario as well...trusting/ hoping your last venture this way was profitable and enjoyable!
http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/20...he-big-tough-skilled-forward-the-oilers-need/

 

[COOL MAN]

Pens couldn't possibly have make the same kind of deal for Lucic as the Kings, especially without their #1. But while I personally can't stand the guy.....and for everyone who thinks Sid's a crybaby, say hello to arguably the biggest one (figuratively and literally) in the League.....I admit I also thought about him to the Pens when he was first rumored to be on his way out of Boston last season.

While I freely admit the Pens need a kid exactly like Ritchie, I have to admit that friggin' Tangradi.....who might have actually had a better profile coming out of Juniors.....probably has soured my own attitude about big OHL kid-forwards. As I may have mentioned in another thread, I'll never forget reading the story about Tangradi which said big scoring wingers are a dime a dozen in the OHL, and most have a bunch to prove when they turn pro. Tangradi, as we all know, is the dictionary definition of the big kid who got mucho chances and never made it; in fact, has arguably never had a single good game as a pro..

Still, I think the League is such these days that most teams pretty much have to take a shot on at least one big forward (or D) prospect in every Draft.....even if you have to pull the trigger on him too early. I was OK with the team taking the flyer on the Russian kid late, though I don't get the impression he's an especially physical kid given the fact he's 6-7. But who knows what he'll be like 3 years from now after playing college hockey and filling out; by then, maybe he'll be 280 pounds and looking to play football at Penn State.

As for Ehrhoff, It's crystal clear he's has had trouble coming back.....and may still be having trouble coming back...... from that concussion. It's the only explanation why a legitimate puck-moving/shooting pro like him can't find a 3 year $10 million deal.....which really is ho-hum anymore......without eeven trying. I really feel bad in that it happened at the worst possible time for any athlete; approaching free agency. But worries me more is this might be totally derailing his career.

He seems like a decent-enough guy, so I hope he can come back with somebody.

 

[COOL MAN]

Question to all coming into a weekend.......would you have offered a 31 year old (when the new season starts) Ryan Kesler a 6 year/$41 million+ deal ??

I might have considered offering him $21 million for 3 years (or maybe $28 million for 4 years)......which he presumably doesn't accept in July 2015. But am I still offering that kind of guaranteed annual money to a 45-50 point guy five years from now when he's 36 years old.....and for two more years ??

I don't think so; I suspect the Ducks are going be almost as sorry with this deal as Washington will be a year or two from now (if not this season) with Brooks Orpik's deal.....or how the Pens feel carrying a now badly-damaged Kris Letang's deal.

 

[torontoeers]

Question to all coming into a weekend.......would you have offered a 31 year old (when the new season starts) Ryan Kesler a 6 year/$41 million+ deal ??

I might have considered offering him $21 million for 3 years (or maybe $28 million for 4 years)......which he presumably doesn't accept in July 2015. But am I still offering that kind of guaranteed annual money to a 45-50 point guy five years from now when he's 36 years old.....and for two more years ??

I don't think so; I suspect the Ducks are going be almost as sorry with this deal as Washington will be a year or two from now (if not this season) with Brooks Orpik's deal.....or how the Pens feel carrying a now badly-damaged Kris Letang's deal.

I think the change of scenery did him very well...but for a year or 2 more at most imo...I hear he was legitimately happy in Vcr for the most part until things started to really go off the rails with Gillis the last year of his term...I think you're right though that the Ducks now have a highly untradeable contract on their hands and are hoping (preying) he stays healthy...
I figure(d) it was this year or maybe next for the Craps to make hay with the big bucks they now have on the back end, and up front with Ovi/Backstrom...they could be in a world of hurt a couple years down the road as I really see nothing in their farm system that knocks my socks off...then again...now that we are in on 3 forwards at what 25 mil? And an oft chronically injured stud on D for big bucks we are essentially in the same boat...a 2 year window max without some MAJOR re-tooling...I would kill for at least a BIG that can move the puck ,whether it be on F or D really...in saying that...BIG Buf? Lol...wow would he ever fit the bill...just relaxing quaffing back a Yuengling (neighbor brings 48 my way when in Maryland every few months), and thinking of Fall in WV/Western Pa....warm days and cool nights taking in a Mountaineer game Sat and a Pens game Fri or Sun...can't wait!!!
Also COOLMAN...your Pirates seem to be right there keeping pace! My Jays need a lock em down arm in the worst possible way to stay in this WC hunt...Martin has helped greatly ...but only so much he can do with so many youthful arms either hurt or getting lit up of late...arrghh!!!

 

[bEER_Nation13]

Signing Kesler to 6 year deal for $41.25 million is about as absurd as singing ROR to 7 year $52.5 million deal. Only makes me that much happier that the Pens are only paying Kessel $6.8 million even for 8 years. He's only 27, nearly same age as our core.