ADVERTISEMENT

Big 12... Lots of sports radio chatter here in Utah

CE4WVU

All-Conference
May 29, 2001
5,310
54
228
Ogden, Utah
Seems there is a lot of that chatter out here between the SLC and Provo areas about BYU and the Big 12. Even from talking with some of the BYU fans, they seem to think something is up.

There was even discussion about Boise State and the Big 12 along with BYU as possible new members...

Now, I just moved here this Spring and waiting to see if this is just the normal "lots of talk and no substance" or, is there more going on that might indicate something is happening soon.

IF (IF being the keyword) they expand westward, I won't be really happy because I thought the conference was looking at schools closer to WVU.
 
I have nothing against BYU/Boise being in, just wish there was a team closer... The bonus that is IF BYU comes in, I can make the 1.5 hour drive to Provo to see our boys play against the Cougars.
 
I hope the league stays at 10, unless they go to 10 league games and add BYU. The other nonP5 option are horrible and are in no way a
 
.... cultural fit in the Big XII. Their fanbases are nonexistent and not what this conference needs.

BYU does at least have fans.

My vote is leave it like it is.


Btw i have big thumbs and hit "post reply" by mistake.
 
3xWVUenginEER's posts remind of an idea I have had on this topic for a while, but which I haven't seen mentioned or addressed anywhere.

Everyone seems to agree BYU is the very best school that the Big 12 realistically could add who is not already affiliated with a Power-5 league at least in part. The push for a 12-team Big 12 always breaks down when it comes to adding a 2d school other than BYU, because beyond the Cougars are several increasingly flawed options.

We've also heard lately that the playoff committee told Bowlsby that 13 games is often going to outweigh 12.

Rather than seeking an exemption from the NCAA to deregulate conference-championship games, why doesn't the Big 12 consider seeking an exemption so that only our conference would be allowed to play a 13th game?

If obtained, the Big 12 could then add BYU if it wished and continue playing a full round-robin schedule. Scheduling would ease considerably, because each school would have an even 5/5 split between conference home and road games every year and thus eliminate the need for that extra creampuff home game in alternate seasons.

The Big 12 would enjoy one considerable advantage over the other leagues under this scenario: Our teams would be playing 10 conference games compared to just 8 or 9 in all the others. That would carry quite a bit of weight in strength-of-schedule calculations.

This is a non-traditional suggestion, but perhaps Bowlsby and the Big 12 need to think more creatively in order to find a competitive edge and re-tilt the playing field back in our favor.
 
3xWVUenginEER's posts remind of an idea I have had on this topic for a while, but which I haven't seen mentioned or addressed anywhere.

Everyone seems to agree BYU is the very best school that the Big 12 realistically could add who is not already affiliated with a Power-5 league at least in part. The push for a 12-team Big 12 always breaks down when it comes to adding a 2d school other than BYU, because beyond the Cougars are several increasingly flawed options.

We've also heard lately that the playoff committee told Bowlsby that 13 games is often going to outweigh 12.

Rather than seeking an exemption from the NCAA to deregulate conference-championship games, why doesn't the Big 12 consider seeking an exemption so that only our conference would be allowed to play a 13th game?

If obtained, the Big 12 could then add BYU if it wished and continue playing a full round-robin schedule. Scheduling would ease considerably, because each school would have an even 5/5 split between conference home and road games every year and thus eliminate the need for that extra creampuff home game in alternate seasons.

The Big 12 would enjoy one considerable advantage over the other leagues under this scenario: Our teams would be playing 10 conference games compared to just 8 or 9 in all the others. That would carry quite a bit of weight in strength-of-schedule calculations.

This is a non-traditional suggestion, but perhaps Bowlsby and the Big 12 need to think more creatively in order to find a competitive edge and re-tilt the playing field back in our favor.
Makes a lot of sense. Whether the powers that be would allow it is another question. I don't mind BYU and think they are probably the inevitable choice. I just don't like any options right now for the 12th team and do not want to give up the round robin. Where do I vote?
 
3xWVUenginEER's posts remind of an idea I have had on this topic for a while, but which I haven't seen mentioned or addressed anywhere.

Everyone seems to agree BYU is the very best school that the Big 12 realistically could add who is not already affiliated with a Power-5 league at least in part. The push for a 12-team Big 12 always breaks down when it comes to adding a 2d school other than BYU, because beyond the Cougars are several increasingly flawed options.

We've also heard lately that the playoff committee told Bowlsby that 13 games is often going to outweigh 12.

Rather than seeking an exemption from the NCAA to deregulate conference-championship games, why doesn't the Big 12 consider seeking an exemption so that only our conference would be allowed to play a 13th game?

If obtained, the Big 12 could then add BYU if it wished and continue playing a full round-robin schedule. Scheduling would ease considerably, because each school would have an even 5/5 split between conference home and road games every year and thus eliminate the need for that extra creampuff home game in alternate seasons.

The Big 12 would enjoy one considerable advantage over the other leagues under this scenario: Our teams would be playing 10 conference games compared to just 8 or 9 in all the others. That would carry quite a bit of weight in strength-of-schedule calculations.

This is a non-traditional suggestion, but perhaps Bowlsby and the Big 12 need to think more creatively in order to find a competitive edge and re-tilt the playing field back in our favor.

Why couldn't you just do that anyway? Whether or not you add BYU, the rule still has to be changed either way. If all you want is the extra game, just change the rule and play a 4th OOC game, which is what some of the other conferences do anyway.
 
Why couldn't you just do that anyway? Whether or not you add BYU, the rule still has to be changed either way. If all you want is the extra game, just change the rule and play a 4th OOC game, which is what some of the other conferences do anyway.
If I understand you correctly, your idea doesn't really address the issue that the whole conference faces.

Some members would inevitably use the extra game to face an additional cupcake, not to mention the omnipresent difficulties of scheduling quality OOC opponents.

Say you really are trying to schedule quality foes, but the one year you just couldn't find anybody decent with an opening happens to be the season you're sitting there on the 4/5 bubble like our conference was last year. Guess who will left holding the bag again?

I think it's a far better use of the hypothetical extra game to lock in an additional guaranteed respectable opponent. After all, isn't that the primary cited benefit the title-game participants get in the other leagues?

If you seek the exemption at all in my scenario, the purpose ought to be to convert that opportunity into an insurance policy rather than leaving it to the vagaries of chance.
 
I would go with the extra game. I am flexible.

I just under no circumstances want to dilute the conference through expansion. Commuter schools, diectional schools, and schools with no fanbases do not help. You are just ruining the UNBELIEVABLY AWESOME & BEST & ROUGHEST & TOUGHEST SCHEDULE EVER.

Also its not the same culture.
 
If I understand you correctly, your idea doesn't really address the issue that the whole conference faces.

Some members would inevitably use the extra game to face an additional cupcake, not to mention the omnipresent difficulties of scheduling quality OOC opponents.

Say you really are trying to schedule quality foes, but the one year you just couldn't find anybody decent with an opening happens to be the season you're sitting there on the 4/5 bubble like our conference was last year. Guess who will left holding the bag again?

I think it's a far better use of the hypothetical extra game to lock in an additional guaranteed respectable opponent. After all, isn't that the primary cited benefit the title-game participants get in the other leagues?

If you seek the exemption at all in my scenario, the purpose ought to be to convert that opportunity into an insurance policy rather than leaving it to the vagaries of chance.
Exactly what I was thinking. Even if we don't expand not having a conference championship is a must. If not we truly will be the old Big East. Sit around and hope we are one loss better than everyone else just to be accepted into the playoff. That's exactly where the Big East was before the collapse.
 
I'll concern myself with a conference championship game once WVU proves it can win more than 7 games in this league. with another mediocre season looming ahead, we are a long way from that happening.

I don't give a shit about any other team in the Big 12 so I couldn't care less if they get left out of the playoff.
 
Just so you know WVU loses money every time a BIG XII team doesn't make the playoff. I don't care about any other sports team pro or college. But this conference sticking together is a must if we are to remain relevant. Nobody else wants us if this conference folds. At least not one we'd want to play for.
 
How much $$ does WVU lose for missing the playoff? I assume the rest of the league does also? I'd rather focus on building a team that doesn't get their shit kicked in multiple times a year and losing a couple bucks from the playoff is going to have no effect on building a good program.
 
Although I wouldn't be really ecstatic about adding a BYU or Boise State, I might prefer a UCF or Cincy... it comes down to a "once you're on the plane, it doesn't matter all that much" issue. I actually prefer a BYU and don't much like UCF or Cincy except for the accessibility to away games and fertile recruiting territory. I don't think we win much with a Utah or Idaho school but, who knows?
 
I know some don't understand....but expansion can be an investment rather than an instant improvement in the level of competition. Investing can be risky....but it can payoff big time in the long run.

The Big 10 didn't add Rutgers because it currently offered much of anything athletically...they invested in their market and potential. There's certainly schools still out there that offer market and potential....right ?
 
^^^ Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the Big 10 add Rutgers because they have a TV network and they add $$$ to the league?

The Big 12 has no network, so add markets becomes somewhat irrelevant, yes?

Besides, the Big 10 has 4 national football brands in OSU, UM, PSU, and NU, they can absorb a shitty football school. The Big 12 only has 2 national football brands, so you don't want to dilute the league any more by adding shitty programs like Cinci or UCF.
 
^^^ Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the Big 10 add Rutgers because they have a TV network and they add $$$ to the league?

The Big 12 has no network, so add markets becomes somewhat irrelevant, yes?

Besides, the Big 10 has 4 national football brands in OSU, UM, PSU, and NU, they can absorb a shitty football school. The Big 12 only has 2 national football brands, so you don't want to dilute the league any more by adding shitty programs like Cinci or UCF.


I don't particularly like any of the expansion candidates but if I had to make a choice, I'd like to see large metropolitan markets that are dead center in our league rivals... Ohio and Florida. Utah and Idaho don't add anything along those lines. Good programs but no add.
 
^^^ Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the Big 10 add Rutgers because they have a TV network and they add $$$ to the league?

The Big 12 has no network, so add markets becomes somewhat irrelevant, yes?.

Yes, Rutgers was added because of their market (as I previously wrote) BUT also because with time and all the additional income they have 'potential'. I doubt The Big 10 adds a team without a strong chance of improving its athletic performance.

Markets DO MATTER even if a conference doesn't have its own network....they matter in regard to the 'big boy' main tv contract. Don't think that the Big 10 won't be pointing the new NY market when they renegotiate it.
 
I don't particularly like any of the expansion candidates but if I had to make a choice, I'd like to see large metropolitan markets that are dead center in our league rivals... Ohio and Florida. Utah and Idaho don't add anything along those lines. Good programs but no add.

So you take Cinci and UCF, why? Those markets aren't even that large and both programs have shitty fan bases.

Bringing UCF to the Big 12 isn't going to increase viewership in Orlando, everyone down there is already a Gator or Seminole fan. All that does is take away a potential game with Texas or OU and add a shitty commuter school to the schedule.

If you want to piss off Longhorn fans even more, add Central Florida to the league. A&M plays LSU, Alabama, Auburn, & Arkansas every year while Texas gets OU, Cinci, UCF, Iowa State and Kansas. Talk about a ratings mismatch.
 
So you take Cinci and UCF, why? Those markets aren't even that large and both programs have shitty fan bases.

Bringing UCF to the Big 12 isn't going to increase viewership in Orlando, everyone down there is already a Gator or Seminole fan. All that does is take away a potential game with Texas or OU and add a shitty commuter school to the schedule.

If you want to piss off Longhorn fans even more, add Central Florida to the league. A&M plays LSU, Alabama, Auburn, & Arkansas every year while Texas gets OU, Cinci, UCF, Iowa State and Kansas. Talk about a ratings mismatch.

Maybe you didn't understand me. I'm not a proponent of any of the teams mentioned but the individual markets outside of Boise and Utah have far more potential, IMO. I like the Western schools for their performance but I don't look away from the potential of the more Eastern schools!
 
I know some don't understand....but expansion can be an investment rather than an instant improvement in the level of competition. Investing can be risky....but it can payoff big time in the long run.

The Big 10 didn't add Rutgers because it currently offered much of anything athletically...they invested in their market and potential. There's certainly schools still out there that offer market and potential....right ?
I think they were after the New York metro TV's. Academically, Rutgers is a great add and they have now got a pod of three eastern schools. Smart.
 
WVU is in a conference called the BIG 12 and will be in this conference long term.
If the BIG 12 doesn't make the playoffs the conference and WVU lose money. If the conference doesn't make the playoffs WVU loses prestige right along with its conference mates.

If someone does not care about this? They probably don't care about WVU.

WVU's success in the future is very much dependent on a strong conference affiliation. The BIG 12 is looking at expansion to improve its situation into the future. More eyeballs watching, more fans caring, new recruits from new areas. Anyone claiming new markets aren't needed must not understand that advertisers who pay millions to the tv providers require markets to sell to. Expansion provides for more inventory and future revenue streams.

The BIG 12 has a tv contract coming up for negotiations in 9 years. They've got to get moving now to ensure that when they get to those negotiations they'll be in a strong enough position to maintain revenues on par with everyone else.

You have to wonder what exactly do those who want the conference to do nothing expect the results for the conference to be down the road if it does do nothing? What will happen to the next tv contract? How often will the BIG 12 have been in the playoffs when everyone else has a 13th game advantage? What is the lack of positive press for the BIG 12 going to result in.

Obviously some want an end, but those people are not WVU fans or haven't actually considered the consequences.
 
WVU is in a conference called the BIG 12 and will be in this conference long term.
If the BIG 12 doesn't make the playoffs the conference and WVU lose money. If the conference doesn't make the playoffs WVU loses prestige right along with its conference mates.

If someone does not care about this? They probably don't care about WVU.

WVU's success in the future is very much dependent on a strong conference affiliation. The BIG 12 is looking at expansion to improve its situation into the future. More eyeballs watching, more fans caring, new recruits from new areas. Anyone claiming new markets aren't needed must not understand that advertisers who pay millions to the tv providers require markets to sell to. Expansion provides for more inventory and future revenue streams.

The BIG 12 has a tv contract coming up for negotiations in 9 years. They've got to get moving now to ensure that when they get to those negotiations they'll be in a strong enough position to maintain revenues on par with everyone else.

You have to wonder what exactly do those who want the conference to do nothing expect the results for the conference to be down the road if it does do nothing? What will happen to the next tv contract? How often will the BIG 12 have been in the playoffs when everyone else has a 13th game advantage? What is the lack of positive press for the BIG 12 going to result in.

Obviously some want an end, but those people are not WVU fans or haven't actually considered the consequences.

Stopped reading halfway through your bullshit, please keep your BS on BGN.

Not that I need to justify myself to you, but I graduated from WVU in 2011 & so did a sibling of mine, both on out of state tuition. My family and I give back to this school (both academics & athletics) probably more than we should, and I am completely justified in stating my opinions.

If you can't handle people that disagree with you, stay off message boards.
 
I agree with him. I'm guessing most on here have enough foresight to agree with him as well. I also agree with you that we need to get our ship headed in the right direction. The distinct difference is one train if thought is short term and the other is long term. Short term WVU needs to get things rolling. Long term we need the Big XII to get the move on to sustainability. Otherwise our wins an losses won't mean squat in the big picture.
 
Don't agree at all. BYU is the only team likely to join that adds anything. There is no 12th team that adds value at this point. Cincy, UCF, UCONN, Memphis ALL smack of desperation. Give it a few years. NONE of those teams are going anywhere, nobody wants them outside of desperate fans who think 12 teams is some kind of magical number.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ThePunish-EER
I would welcome Boise State as long as WVU gets and Eastern or Midwestern partner along with Boise say Memphis or Cincy. My first choice would be BYU and Cincy because I believe they are one of the top three or four schools that are still above that cutoff line between Power 5 and mid major status. Second would actually be Colorado State and Cincy. Third would be BYU and Cincy/Memphis.

But can we all agree that BYU, Boise State, Colorado State, Cincy, Memphis and possibly UConn are really the only choices the Big 12 has unless it poaches another conference?
 
One thing I want to add is if the Big12 could get Notre Dame then another school like BYU it would completely change the attitude towards the Big12.

Get Notre Dame to join and any other school listed above and the Big12 becomes arguably the best conference in football and basketball. That is the best case scenario and if the big wigs of the Big12 have any sense at all that is their first plan.
 
3xWVUenginEER's posts remind of an idea I have had on this topic for a while, but which I haven't seen mentioned or addressed anywhere.

Everyone seems to agree BYU is the very best school that the Big 12 realistically could add who is not already affiliated with a Power-5 league at least in part. The push for a 12-team Big 12 always breaks down when it comes to adding a 2d school other than BYU, because beyond the Cougars are several increasingly flawed options.

We've also heard lately that the playoff committee told Bowlsby that 13 games is often going to outweigh 12.

Rather than seeking an exemption from the NCAA to deregulate conference-championship games, why doesn't the Big 12 consider seeking an exemption so that only our conference would be allowed to play a 13th game?

If obtained, the Big 12 could then add BYU if it wished and continue playing a full round-robin schedule. Scheduling would ease considerably, because each school would have an even 5/5 split between conference home and road games every year and thus eliminate the need for that extra creampuff home game in alternate seasons.

The Big 12 would enjoy one considerable advantage over the other leagues under this scenario: Our teams would be playing 10 conference games compared to just 8 or 9 in all the others. That would carry quite a bit of weight in strength-of-schedule calculations.

This is a non-traditional suggestion, but perhaps Bowlsby and the Big 12 need to think more creatively in order to find a competitive edge and re-tilt the playing field back in our favor.
No way they let a whole conference play an extra game when only 2 teams from other P5 conferences get a 13th. The schools would cry about game revenur
 
I agree with NUmbersUp. Not all that concerned about the other BXII teams anymore than they are concerned about WVU. & as an alum who reaps no benefits in revenue sharing, I'm not concerned at all with the university losing or gaining millions because of expanding or not.

Just this week I again received a letter from Morgantown asking for donations. The school & athletic program has more money than ever & operates fine. All I care about is seeing our teams win & with class.

The present round robin is unlike any other league & is the most difficult test. You can dodge no one. Every year. Until we're competing for BXII titles, a conf championship game is nothing to worry about.

As to Boise State, their resume in recent years is quality enough to me to merit consideration. In fact, it surpasses many teams now in the BXII.
 
Last edited:
One thing I want to add is if the Big12 could get Notre Dame then another school like BYU it would completely change the attitude towards the Big12.

Get Notre Dame to join and any other school listed above and the Big12 becomes arguably the best conference in football and basketball. That is the best case scenario and if the big wigs of the Big12 have any sense at all that is their first plan.

By all reports, Notre Dame is contractually obligated to join the ACC if they join a conference prior to 2027 when the ACC contracts expire. Thus, if the BIG 12 big wigs have any sense at all this is not on their "to do" list at all.

BYU isn't going to change attitudes about the BIG 12, that is silly. The attitude towards BYU however would be greatly improved since they are a G5 independent now.
 
I would welcome Boise State as long as WVU gets and Eastern or Midwestern partner along with Boise say Memphis or Cincy. My first choice would be BYU and Cincy because I believe they are one of the top three or four schools that are still above that cutoff line between Power 5 and mid major status. Second would actually be Colorado State and Cincy. Third would be BYU and Cincy/Memphis.

But can we all agree that BYU, Boise State, Colorado State, Cincy, Memphis and possibly UConn are really the only choices the Big 12 has unless it poaches another conference?

Honestly can't see Boise being a realistic option. They add huge travel expenses to everyone and don't add anything but a sometimes good football team. Academically they are not well regarded compared to any of the other "candidates". Uconn, Cincy, Memphis if the academics are disregarded. The Florida schools and BYU are possible, but BYU has burnt bridges and needs special accomodation and the Florida schools would be way off by themselves if only one were added.
 
I'd look at pitt, the Orange and sweet talk Nebraska. Cornhusker fans might have same feeling about travel as we do. Getting MIzzo back would be a plus. It's time for some payback to ACC IMHO.
 
According to Brett McMurphy who seems fairly well connected, there won't be any western additions. He says that is the only part of BIG 12 realignment he is 100% sure of.
 
Not saying it signifies anything, but Dr. Gee is a Mormon, a Utah native and a former faculty member at BYU. He's also a member of the league's 3-man expansion committee.
 
This conference made a commitment to the East by adding WVU. Name one conference that spans 3 time zones that has ever had success on a long term basis.

The only way I would add BYU would be if WVU left or was removed from the B12, which won't happen until the next GOR at least. I don't know if this situation can wait that long.

Adding UCF is a win-win. UCF is a better football program than at least 2 of our current teams and have probably 1/5 the budget to work with. They will get better with a P5 conference. Better than UF? No.Better than FSU? No. Better than Miami? A definite possibility. In the 90's the state flourished with those teams all as NC contenders and there is no reason why they wouldn't embrace UCF if they win. The decline of Miami has created an opportunity in perhaps the most talent-rich state in the entire country.

What if UCF is great in 10 years? Would the B12 be a viable conference without OU and Texas as constructed now? No
However a top 10-15 UCF and TCU and a Top 10 level Baylor program with WVU/OSU being top 20-30 teams yearly certainly has a chance.

Someone mentioned that UCF can wait. They can, but the B12 might not have that luxury. I'd rather shore up the B12 now and give it a chance if we get sliced and diced in 10 years rather than assume no one will abandon ship 10 years from now. UT and OU have all the leverage right now. A strong UCF in 2025 takes some of that away.
 
Just so you know WVU loses money every time a BIG XII team doesn't make the playoff. I don't care about any other sports team pro or college. But this conference sticking together is a must if we are to remain relevant. Nobody else wants us if this conference folds. At least not one we'd want to play for.
WVU really did not lose any money because the B12 did not make the playoff. The Power 5 conferences get their money out the the Play off pool no matter if they have a team in the final four. The actual playoff for participating is really just expense money for the teams playing.
 
Maybe you didn't understand me. I'm not a proponent of any of the teams mentioned but the individual markets outside of Boise and Utah have far more potential, IMO. I like the Western schools for their performance but I don't look away from the potential of the more Eastern schools!
I love it when the bottom line associated with non-profit intercollegiate atletics is money.. it's so hypocritical and so American...we all wear bar codes on our foreheads.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pressvirginia
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT